Why Creativity Is the Ultimate Wealth-Building Skill with Nick Nanton – EP 302

Justin Donald: What's up, Nick? Good to have you on the show.

Nick Nanton: Great to be here, man. Haven't seen you since we last played pickleball, which is the last time I played pickleball.

Justin Donald: Yeah. Well, and there was pure domination, as I recall. It's always a pleasure having you join us at one of our Lifestyle Investor meetups, and putting the hurt on some of the members, and, well, many of which are my dear friends.

Nick Nanton: It was a blast.

Justin Donald: But you came out swinging, man. I mean, you were kind of like, "Yeah, I don't play pickleball," but you didn't mention early on that you play tennis. And so, you were ruthless. It was awesome.

Nick Nanton: We had a blast. I have rarely seen someone talk as much trash as you with a smile on their face. It was great.

Justin Donald: Well, one of my favorite things, one of the things I'm best at, a few people know, unless you get in a competitive arena with me, is I love to talk some trash.

Nick Nanton: I love it. I love it. Well, glad to be here, man. Thanks for having me.

Justin Donald: Well, hey, this is going to be fun. We've been talking about this for a while. I mean, we've actually been talking about this for probably three or four years now, if memory serves me correctly, and I'm so glad we're here. I mean, your resume is just a star-studded resume. I knew you had done some cool stuff, but you have directed more than 75 documentaries, won 24 Emmy Awards, produced Broadway shows, have produced your own global recording artists, have written songs, had tons of stars pick up the songs that you've done. And then even just from an interview standpoint, the who's who that you have had the opportunity to interview in depth, to have a star in Hollywood on the Hollywood Walk.

I mean, you've got a cool resume, and I can't wait to shine the light on all the things that you're up to. So, thanks again for being here. And I just have to ask, where the heck did all this creativity and brilliance come from? Did you know, like, when you were young, that you were like a super creative? Or when did you figure this out?

Nick Nanton: Yeah. So, thank you. Great question. Thank you for the kind words. And I think, look, what I want to make sure everyone gets out of this interview is, my story is not your story. And so, everything I'm going to talk about today, although I have utilized it in what would be called creative fields and creative endeavors in music and film and everything like that, it's all things that work everywhere. So, I want to make sure we don't have someone say, "Oh, this is either going to be entertaining," which hopefully it will, "but it's not for me," or, "Oh, I don't know what this is going to do for me." Because all of this comes from, first of all, I used to say that I'm a business guy first and a creative person second, but I realized that that wasn't exactly true.

What I am is a creative person who had to learn how to do business so I could afford to be creative. That's sort of how I would say it. But what I've really come to learn, I have a new book I'm working on called Creativity Protects You. It's based on something Dan Sullivan said to me during COVID of Strategic Coach. And creativity, what I've learned is creativity is just the ability to see options where everyone else sees obstacles. And so, really, creativity, every one of us has used it, in parenting, in business, in every aspect of our life. To me, creativity is just the ability to keep going when everyone else thinks you should stop, in healthy endeavors, by the way, which is hard to figure out what, you know, everyone else has a goal and a mission in life for you.

So, sometimes you got to walk past what they think is healthy, too. But look, I've always had a lot of energy. I'm an immigrant kid, ADHD, all the things. And I think what really allowed me to achieve what I've achieved so far, which by the way, I've also lost 24 Emmys, so it hurts. Actually, the losses hurt way more. But the deal is just finding what your truly, and I'll use my own language, everyone else can use their own, what your God-given gifts are. And I think most of the time, think about like middle school. Middle school is like that time where you just want to blend into the walls, right? You don't want them to call your parents' name over the loudspeaker. They're going to call your name. You just want to blend in like the same.

And I think all of us feel that way sometimes, but what I've truly learned is what makes you different makes you. And the more we lean into our gifts, they make us seem and feel a bit weird sometimes in life because we have these superpowers really that other people can't understand. And if we utilize them, we stick out, and we feel different. So, really, to me, creativity is all about utilizing those God-given gifts to come up with options when you're presented with the biggest obstacles in life. And my journey of interviewing lots of celebrities and musicians has really been sort of a journey of self-discovery, of trying to figure out, hey, what did you do here? What did you do here? So, when that moment comes up for me, hopefully I'm prepared to tackle it.

Justin Donald: Oh, I love that, Nick. And when I think about this whole idea of being artistic, like, you really believe creativity isn't just an artistic skill. You shared a little bit of this, but it's a practical tool for opportunities, problem-solving, building wealth. So, here's something, it's funny, my wife is creatively gifted, but I would call it, like maybe tier one, right? Like, she likes to color. She thinks creatively. When we had our daughter, we were like, "Whoa. Where did this crazy amount of creativity come from?" because she would make dresses and design stuff and make jewelry and create her own dances and just all kinds of stuff. And so, we're like, okay, neither of us parents have that level of creativity.

And for the longest time in my life, Nick, I believed I was not creative. I actually believed... And by the way, my brother's a great artist. My brother can take apart anything and put it back together, so can my dad. And I don't have any of that. Not only do I not have it, I can't even stand it. Like, I am so far away from good at any of that, anything with my hands. But I believed for the longest time I was not artistic. And it was funny, one day I was cooking in the kitchen, and we were having company over, and I was like, "Oh, I'm going to try and do this with the fish and then I'm going to do this." And it ended up turning out spectacular, and people are like, "What'd you do? How did this...?"

And I was like, "Well, I marinated it in this, and I let it sit for four hours, and then I grilled it.” It was like all these different things, and it was like this brand new marinade that I came up with, and my wife was like, "That's really creative." And that was like one of the first times in my life I'd ever heard like, "You have creativity." And it made me reflect, and I said, "Wait a minute." The way I invest is creative. I actually create unique structures. I can be creative in looking at data to figure out maybe what a trend is that isn't mainstream. I can be creative and see a deal or an opportunity that doesn't yet exist. I can be creative and see that these two people need to meet each other, yet they don't even know who each other are, and they may not even know if they met each other without me articulating what I see, that there are business synergies, right?

And so, I had this massive paradigm shift of like, “I'm not a creative,” to, "Wow, I am actually really creative.” And so, it was like that was a really cool, you know. I feel like I walked a little taller when I had that belief. And so, it makes me think I'm not the only one. Many people probably think they're not creative or creativity belongs only in art and not investing. Like, we talk a lot on investing and entrepreneurship here. So, why do you believe creativity is actually one of the most valuable wealth-building skills or business-building skills that entrepreneurs and professionals or investors can develop?

Nick Nanton: Yeah. Well, man, I'm so glad to hear you say that because it's so true. Look, we all have strengths and weaknesses, and not that we maybe shouldn't spend time, and sometimes we need to spend time, like building muscle, for instance, right? Like, we're born sort of weak, and it's a good idea to do the hard things, right? But I believe you get exponential returns, probably financially as well, but definitely, just personally, by leaning into your strengths. Because not only do they make your life more fulfilling, it's just the same way like your dad, your brother, who can take apart things and put them back together. It's probably really helpful when you need it. They can really serve you or someone else when needed.

You, look, you've built one of the most creative business models I've ever seen, and that's creativity. And so, looking at the things that make sense to you. Again, finding options where everyone else finds obstacles, where they say, like, I don't know, a big mutual fund or something, "Oh, we don't know how to get rid... We can't get rid of the taxes in that." And you find, "Well, what if I put the deal structure together this way and this way by just putting these two pieces of the puzzle together?" It's almost like Legos. Legos, they're very common blocks, but what you can build with them is something very different than what I would build with them without a roadmap.

And the thing I think people need to understand is that creativity, honestly, at the end of the day, I think where we would all... Look, I mentioned the 24 Emmy losses, the more than 24 Emmy wins. I think all of us, our brains, our brains calculate things a lot more meaningfully, usually in scarcity and loss than they do in joy and winning. It's just the way we're wired. I try not to live there, but it's just the way we're wired. So, creativity, honestly, is the reason people survive difficult seasons. And it's not because it removes problems, but it's because it helps us see possibilities. And I would bet that any one of us who's ever experienced a downtime in our life. I don't know what clinical depression is. I'm not going to pretend to.

My brother's a psychiatrist. You can talk to him about that. That's why I'm also messed up, by the way, because my brother is a psychiatrist. But anyway…

Justin Donald: Psychoanalyzing you…

Nick Nanton: Yeah, exactly.

Justin Donald: …for your whole life.

Nick Nanton: And so, the thing about it is I believe when any one of us is in a state of just not feeling right, not feeling good, feeling down, whatever it is, I believe that seeing options is what allows us to see hope, which allows us to get back on track. Like, things can be really bad one moment, and you can get one phone call that gives you an idea for an option. "Oh, there is somebody who wants to date me. There is somebody who wants to do business with me. There is..." Whatever it is, and all of a sudden, your brain chemistry completely changes. So, to me, creativity is the ability to find options, and options ultimately create hope, and hope can create action.

Justin Donald: Now, Nick, I know your new book isn't out yet, but I still believe some of what you have written about when it comes to money is that it's a creativity problem, oftentimes. And so, I want to know what you mean by that. Like, how can investors use creativity to really unlock opportunities where other people see limitations?

Nick Nanton: So, the idea, look, most businesses, money is a symptom, not the problem. The problem is, usually, you ran out of enough ideas in the current marketplace to get money in. And so, I think, look, as investors, what you should be looking for are dead ends. When you find that dead end, it will force you to think differently, to say like, "How could that work?" or, "What else could I do?" Not necessarily how do I make this work, but what else could I do? And I think we could see, certainly through history, I mean, whether you like him or not, the Elon Musks of the world. He's hit so many. I mean, I did the documentary on Peter Diamandis, did the first private space flight, you know?

And here's what happened. They were trying to fund a $10 million prize. They called it the XPRIZE because they ultimately believed Mr. X, Mrs. X, Brand X would come in and sponsor it, and it'd be called the whatever prize. Well, Richard Branson bought it. Now, it's Virgin Galactic, right? So, it should've been the Virgin Prize or whatever it's going to be called. And he couldn't figure out how to fund the $10 million. Like, no one would give it to him ultimately because everyone said, "Someone's going to die trying this." And what's fascinating is humanity has only really gotten to where we have because people have taken risks, and without the risk, there is no reward.

So, he was sort of blown away by that. But because Peter couldn't figure it out, he finally said, "Well, what could I do?" And ultimately, the $10 million XPRIZE was funded with a tweak on a hole-in-one golf tournament life insurance policy. And so, they basically got them. So, most people don't understand that if there's a million-dollar purse for hitting a hole in one in a golf tournament, the golf club does not have a million dollars sitting in a safe somewhere. They do the odds, and they pay for an insurance policy for this one day or for whatever it is. If someone hits this, the insurance company's going to pay the million dollars. Insurance company actuaries run the numbers. You guys all understand that.

And say, "Okay, if you want us to guarantee that, and here's all the rules, here's the number of people, it's going to be $50,000 or whatever." And they're like, "All right, that should just be part of our operational cost, is that $50,000 for it." So, they tweaked that but had Peter never run into that issue of no one's giving me $10 million, there's no way he would've thought to mix hole-in-one golf tournament insurance with this prize money, and he'd have been out of business quickly. So, I think creativity is the idea that when you hit the end of the road, saying, "Well, what else could I do?" And one of my favorite podcasts ever is Joe Rogan and Lionel Richie. If you haven't listened to it, it is mind-blowing.

And really what Lionel Richie says, I think, is so relevant to everyone, and this is what I took from it. I don't remember exactly what he said, but he basically said, "The last one standing is the one who always wins." And so, in business and investing, the whole idea is to be what do I got to do to survive another day to be the last one standing, because conditions will change. Circumstances will change. Markets will change. What do I need to do today to stay in the fight? And to me, that's ultimately a creative decision.

Justin Donald: Well, and you used a very creative way to invest, bring community together, create a unique partnership with the bourbon company that you launched. So, it's an investment. It's also a brand. You partnered with Chris Voss. By the way, I love his work. That guy is a total stud. If you haven't read his work, it is unreal. But tell us about that and how that came to be.

Nick Nanton: Yeah. So, I was working with Chris Voss on his documentary. It's called Tactical Empathy. It's on Amazon. It was a fun one, but I loved his book. I first met Chris Voss at a cocktail party, with Dan Sullivan, actually, and Joe Polish, about 10 days, maybe two weeks before the first COVID cases started shutting down the world. And we sat down for a cocktail. Joe doesn't drink. I had a glass of wine. I love red wine. Chris had a bourbon. And I said, "This is a cool guy. I like it." And I knew he wrote this negotiation book. I knew who he was. He had the number one masterclass in the world. But I really didn't want to read another negotiation book because I went to law school, and I had a hard time reading those negotiation books because they were terrible.

Justin Donald: Right. Well, his is way different. Yeah, his is awesome, as you now know.

Nick Nanton: Unbelievable. So, I went to Iraq about a week later on a human trafficking thing I was working on, and while we were in Iraq, the first COVID cases broke out, so we got out of there because we didn't want to stay there. We got the film done. But I got home, and I'm like they started shutting everything down, and I was like, "Well, wait, what can I do right now?” Like, first of all, we all have this anxiety. Who knows what business is going to look like, who knows what life's going to look like, who knows. So, I said, "Well, what could I do to..." I have a very good friend who's a mentor, a guy named Dr. Nido Qubein, one of the most incredible leaders on earth. And he said, "Nick, a life well-lived is a life lived in three parts: one-third earning, one-third learning, one-third serving."

So, I sort of started trying to break up my days during COVID of like, "What can I do? What might earning look like? What might it look like, or what could I do today to get further there? What could I learn today that might be valuable in a post-COVID world, if we ever get there, who knows? And then what does serving look like?" And ultimately, serving is what allows you to get out of scarcity. By serving someone else, it allows you to gain a lot but also allows you to get outside of yourself. It's a way to ask, what do they need instead of what do I need? And then it opens up your mind to creativity, because you can't be creative in a state of scarcity. So, I started thinking, "What could I do to serve those around me?"

And one of the things is, like, my parents had never gotten on a Zoom call ever before, and my niece and nephews live states away. So, that's one way to serve. And ultimately I said, "Well, what else could I do? Oh, I could host, like, Facebook Lives with some people who I think are interesting, and maybe it'll be interesting to people sitting at home all day." So, I'm like, "Well, I want to interview Chris Voss." And so, I'm like, "But I guess I got to read his book." So, I read his book.

Justin Donald: Smart move.

Nick Nanton: Yeah, and I now would say it's one of my top 10 books of all time, and it is.

Justin Donald: Oh, yeah. Next level.

Nick Nanton: So, anyway, we did his documentary a couple of years later, and I noticed he liked bourbon. And so, I took him on a... I love to fish. I have no patience, but I've got a ton of hope. We can unpack that later. But I said, I was on a boat with Chris, and I said... First of all, he goes, "You really like fishing, don't you?" I'm like, "Yes, I do, Chris." And then I said, "Hey, I got this idea. We should start a bourbon because you love bourbon, and we should call it The Difference, because you never split the difference." And he started laughing. He goes, "Yeah, we should." And so, I took that as a yes. But basically, I was able to get a bunch of friends involved, and we created something really unique where we don't sell our bourbon in the commercial marketplace, number one, because I know we can't compete. It's just too much money out there.

So, the bourbon's called The Difference. The slogan is Never Split, Always Share, because you never split the difference. And we have a society called The Shareholder Society, and you're holding your share of our bourbon. So, by being a member of that, you get quarterly shipments of different expressions of our award-winning bourbon. We just won Double Gold at the Oscars of Spirits in San Francisco, so we have a great distiller. And so, you get quarterly shipments, and we do two what we call socials a year around the country. We do one expedition a year. We just did Nicaragua and did bourbon-infused cigars. We're now doing a tequila trip in Mexico.

And it's a bunch of really cool businesspeople. It's called The Difference Business Bourbon. It's the first spirit in the world made to celebrate the art of fair dealing instead of just partying. And really, what we did is we put together a community. We have one rule, no A-holes. And we put together a community of people who want to gather around curiosity, learning, bourbon. And then ultimately it's become sort of this family of people who are starting to do life and business together. So, it's been mind-blowingly fun.

Justin Donald: Oh, that's awesome. I love it, and I love the creativity around it, and like finding ways to partner with people that you just want to do cool stuff with. So, well done on that. You tell a powerful story about being in Haiti during a human trafficking raid. And as I recall, you've done some, like, undercover work as, like, a deputy. So, what did that experience teach you about creativity and resilience and navigating difficult situations when the stakes are literally at the highest of levels?

Nick Nanton: Yeah, so funny story there. So, many of you would know who Russell Brunson is. So, I had met Russell Brunson multiple times. He was at my screening for Peter Diamandis's documentary called Visioneer. And he's came up to me after and said, "Hey, we're going to do a documentary one day, but it's probably not going to be on me, but I'll call you when I'm ready." I was like, sort of, "Whatever that means. Great. Thanks. Sounds great." And so, I got a call from Russell, I believe it was 2017, I think it was. I'd have to look at all the dates. But anyway, like right around Thanksgiving time, and he said, "Nick, I've been working with this organization that helps rescue kids from being sex trafficked. I've been trying to figure out how could I help them shine a light? How could I help them raise money? I was thinking about writing a book, and then you came to me."

And he said, "Would you be willing to make a documentary?" He said, "I'll fund it. Would you be willing to make a documentary to help stop kids from being sex trafficked?" I was like, "Whoa, never thought about that.” But first of all, I think God would strike me down right now if I said no. So, of course I will, and "What does it look like?" So, he introduced me to Tim Ballard, who the movie, Sound of Freedom, is about, and Tim and I talked on the phone. We decided we were going to do something. And so, this was like October, November. Well, little did I know that January, so like a few months later, I'd end up in Haiti in the middle of the night in this raid trying… We weren't law enforcement, of course. We were with Navy SEALs, Haitian Special Forces.

We were just filming, but the idea was to go back and re-arrest a bunch of traffickers who had bribed a judge through organized crime, bribed a judge to get out of jail. And so, I knew part of the story started in Haiti, but I didn't know this whole re-arrest thing. And about a week before, so I told Tim, I was like, "Hey, in order to tell this story correctly, I know we've got to go to Haiti because part of the origin of the story is in Haiti, where a little boy was abducted named Garty." And I said, "But I've always been told, people have always told me they could promise they could get me into Haiti, but they can never promise they can get me out of Haiti. And I need to get out of Haiti." He's like, "No, no, we got that. We can get you in and out no problem." Like, "Okay, great."

So, we end up going, and about a week before we go, he said, "Hey, I got great news. We arrested all these traffickers. They bribed their way out of jail. We rescued a bunch of kids. Most of them are back out on the streets. We're going to go. The great news is we're going to bust down their doors, and we're going to re-arrest them in the middle of the night in their homes, and you get to film." And I'm like, "Oh, neat. That's not what I thought was going to happen." So, we end up going to Haiti with my film crew, and it's a lot of hurry up and wait because trying to work with... There's these weird laws in Haiti that I don't know if they're still in effect, and I'm not sure I understood them fully.

I went to law school, but the things there didn't make a lot of sense. But, like, you couldn't arrest someone, like, after dark. There's some really, there were some weird things. There's some reason we couldn't go. But anyway, we end up getting clearance from the president, who actually got assassinated a couple of years ago now, to go in and execute this raid. And we did some recon. We did some really cool stuff. And working with Navy SEALs and everyone else, I learned a ton. But we ended up executing this raid, arresting this woman, freeing these young girls. And number one, the wildest part was the young girls were crying at first, and I couldn't understand.

I'm like, "You just got freed." But the emotional toll and what they had been lied about their entire lives was that if this woman didn't take care of them, they were going to starve. They were going to be fed to the lions, and here's what they needed to do for her to take care of them. So, they thought their entire life was over, which now that makes sense to me, but it didn't make sense at first. And so, most trafficking victims, by the way, they end up sleeping actually for two, like a couple of days after they're rescued because they've just been living in such a state of trauma. So, we execute the raids. We go with our flak jackets on and run in. We get the whole thing on camera. I went to a Haitian jail for the first and last time. Thankfully, I was watching, and they didn't put me behind bars.

But we did this whole thing, and I get to the airport, and then they say, "Hey, by the way, we got to flee the country because we don't know what happens next." So, we're all trying to fight for flights because there's not that many out, so they had armed security with us all night. We go to the airport the next morning. I call my wife and say, "Hey, honey, I'm coming home. I'll be home in a few hours." She goes, "I thought you weren't leaving for a couple more days." I said, "Well, yeah, we had to flee the country." She's like, "What are you talking about?" I said, "Well, we sort of did this raid thing." She said, "You did what?" I said, "Well, we did this." And I said, "Well, I just have one question. How did you sleep last night?" She said, "Great." I said, "You're welcome." Then I got grounded. I'm not allowed to go on any more raids.

But anyway, what it taught me about creativity was, look, we're in a convoy going through, and we have the attorney general with us. I thought that'd be the safest car. Turns out he was, like, the most wanted man because he was trying to clean up Haiti. I call my wife before we go out. I tell her good night, I love her. I don't tell her anything because there's uncertainty. But what it taught me about creativity is creativity is courage. Creativity isn't calm. It's survival. It's figuring out what do I need to do to make it to another day, literally. And in that case, the wildest part was we were paying a Haitian informant to inform us where these people were, but I was really worried that they might've been paying him more to bring us into a hornet's nest where they were going to overtake us.

That was my first anti-trafficking doc. I don't have documentation for it, but I have it on record. We premiered it at Russell's event, a couple of months later. Russell helped raise a million dollars for that. That doc went on to raise $100 million to stop trafficking. I've since done 11 more docs in anti-trafficking. I'm deputized in the state of Michigan. I've done undercover operations in the US and across the world. And I've learned way more than I ever wanted to know about it, but it's been an honor to be involved in it.

Justin Donald: That's incredible, and I love the way you've been able to serve and bring awareness to it. Sound of Freedom, by the way, was just really a well-done movie. Very moving.

Nick Nanton: They did an awesome job. I did the doc that it's based on.

Justin Donald: Okay. What's that called?

Nick Nanton: It's called Triple Take, and actually, Angel Studios has it and has never released it.

Justin Donald: What?

Nick Nanton: So, hopefully, it'll come out because it shows the truth of... I mean, Sound of Freedom has, of course, some embellishment. It's a movie. But there's really, like, big raids on a private island in Colombia, lots of traffickers. Like, it's pretty wild. And so, I pray they release it at some point because the true story is wild.

Justin Donald: No kidding. Now, you sent me a trailer of something that you're working on right now that looked incredible, and I think it has to do with, like, the music industry.

Nick Nanton: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, we are working on a documentary for the most successful recording studio in history called The Hit Factory.

Justin Donald: Oh, it's so good.

Nick Nanton: It's been unbelievable. Just for that one, we've interviewed Springsteen, Keith Richards, Mark Ronson, Mariah Carey, Post Malone, Paul Simon, Joan Jett. It's been absolutely wild. It's been a true honor, and for a music guy, it's been like an absolute dream.

Justin Donald: I love it. Well, I'm a music guy, too, and I was watching this, and I was like, "I cannot wait for this film to get completed." I'm thrilled about it.

Nick Nanton: Me too.

Justin Donald: So, very cool. Well, let's talk real quick about leveraging what makes you different because I know you talk and write about this a lot. And I think for many of the most successful people, they build their edge maybe embracing them, embracing themselves, like what makes them unique, rather than trying to fit in. Whereas I feel like the masses try to fit in versus finding what makes them unique. And so, one of your principles is what makes you different makes you. So, why do you think so many people spend their lives hiding the very qualities that could become their greatest advantages?

Nick Nanton: I think there's a lot to that. I would imagine many of you would resonate with. Maybe a family member told you to stop doing that, or you got to be more practical, or maybe a teacher or someone who you really looked up to, or maybe it's a bully. Like, usually in certain situations, we're made to feel that our differences are bad and we're made to feel guilty about them. So, for instance, it's funny, once you start thinking about this stuff, you do a lot of processing. And I realized that one... So, I have pretty severe ADHD. I'm sure it's not hard to tell on this call, but like I move really quickly, and everyone's always telling me, "Nick, you've got to slow down."

But here's the thing, speed for me is a coping mechanism. I can only focus on something for so long. Of course, I've worked on it over the years. I've gotten better. It's longer than it used to be. But for instance, I would do a test in high school, and I would finish my test, we'd have an hour for the test, I'd finish my test in 18 minutes, whatever it was. Let's say it's a math test. And I knew what I knew, and I hyper-focused, and I got it done. I'm like, "Okay, I can do this." And by the way, when someone talks to me, I'll oftentimes spit something right back at them, and they think I'm in a hurry. And what they don't realize is, no, I'm like a cat on a clothesline trying to hang on. I'm just trying to make sure that my brain just processed what you told me, and I'm making sure I'm with you.

But my teachers would say, "Hey, Nick, you need to go back and check your answers." And so, then I would respectfully go back and check the answers, and then I'd change some answers, and I usually would make them wrong because my brain was done being able to focus on that. So, just a simple thing like that, it was like, "Oh, what makes me different is I got to move fast. I got to move fast to make it work.” I'm like a boat. I can't turn unless I'm in motion. But you're made to feel because you're different than all the other ducklings, and I think school is one of the easiest ways to see that. Family is, too, because usually there are siblings and other people who need what they need, and the more different you are in a way, you sort of got to conform so that it works, right?

But it's just all about realizing that those gifts you were given, those things that make you different. Look, every sword cuts both ways, so it can lead to addiction, it can lead to success. It can lead to both. But I would say look at the things that perhaps you have been processing as negative that you tried to hide because you were so different than other people, and I would nearly guarantee that the greatest success and fulfillment you've ever had lies within those things that you're hiding. Because we just are given these unique abilities, and when we're put in a classroom, and God bless teachers, not anything they're... Most of them are there. They're not there for the money. We know that. Most of them really are there to help.

Some of them very unqualified emotionally and mentally to do that help. But they're there. And so, I understand that when there's 30 ducklings in a classroom, one duckling that is very different than the others, they're very... So, you get herded back in, right? And oftentimes we get scolded for it. We get in trouble for it. We're being antsy or whatever it is.

Justin Donald: Conform, Nick. Conform.

Nick Nanton: Exactly. And so, that's been beaten into us one way or the other for most of our formative years, including through college, most people through jobs, especially if you work for someone else. And so, I think that those things that make you different are what makes you. And the things that I spent years trying to overcome became the very things that people hire me for. They hire me for my curiosity, my energy, seeing connections where other people didn't, where it was like, "Just stop and do the damn assignment, Nick." Well, no, but this seems to relate to this, and storytelling and things like that.

And so, I would say, I would end that saying like stop trying to fix what makes you different, again, as long as it's not ruining your life, and learn to leverage it because you probably have such a gift in that area that others wouldn't be able to keep up. It's an unfair advantage.

Justin Donald: Yeah, I like the way that you carve that out. And, by the way, I know this to be true in my life. I got a good buddy that basically says he's hyper ADHD, and he's like, "If I don't take action now, in this moment, while I'm thinking of it or while the idea is fresh, it will be gone. I will lose it, so I have to." And so, I'm similar to that in the fact that I'm a big action taker. I'm super curious like you are. And I may not be as heavy on the ADHD side of things as you are, but I also know that when I'm in flow, I just have to go. Like, I've got to stick and move. And so, when something's hot, like, I'm in. And by the way, I might be in for a long stretch. Like, I may lose time, I might be late to something, because I literally just plow all in, and time disappears.

But if I don't do that, even if I write the idea down and I come back later, the process is different, the flow is different. It's totally different. What I was thinking, it's not there. So, it's almost like in that moment, people are always like, "Well, don't you have to think and be more calculated?" I'm like, "Yeah, there are some things you have to be calculated in. In other things, you just have to take action on and then figure other stuff out as you go." Like, you can reassess a little bit later. Like, some things aren't definitive or finalized. Like, you just let the creative process go.

Nick Nanton: You can always cut a second draft later for most things.

Justin Donald: Yes. That's right.

Nick Nanton: Yeah, sometimes with that for me. If I get an idea and I don't at least start taking the notes and putting melodies in my phone and stuff, I'll go back to the title later, and I'll be like…

Justin Donald: “What was that?"

Nick Nanton: "What the hell did I mean by that?" That's the weirdest thing I've ever read in my life.

Justin Donald: Yep. Oh, I love it. Now, this is something I'm really excited to ask you about because I love getting in the heads of many of your super creatives in terms of, like, film or music. Specifically, for me, like those two I love. So, you've interviewed, like, some of the world's most successful people, successful leaders, successful entrepreneurs, successful entertainers. I mean, you name the category, you have interviewed some what most people would consider are, like, the greats. What are some of the common traits that you've observed when it comes to creativity and turning individuality into success?

Nick Nanton: Yeah, man, I'm super blessed to. And I'm not enamored by celebrity anymore, particularly. But I'm in love with people who are so good at what they do, the world can't ignore them, and they're famous for that. And so, I would say some common traits are things like, I mean, every single one of them would mention curiosity, which is really cool. Kindness, again, in life, I just have a no A-hole rule, so I choose not to engage with people who aren't kind. I would say they're all prepared, not that they necessarily prepared for the interview specifically, but, like, they prepared their whole life for this. Like, this is what they do. They live within their unique abilities. Most of them are generous. And I would say the best in the world never feel like they've arrived.

They've stayed curious. And so, I think that a lot of people talk about talent and other things like that, and talent can open doors, but I think that curiosity keeps more doors opening and keeps opportunity coming. And so, every one of them sort of has a lot of those traits.

Justin Donald: Yeah. That's awesome. I've got one more thing. I know we're kind of coming close to end here, but one thing that I wanted to touch on is you say something that I think is super powerful, and I don't know that a lot of people connect these dots. But you say, when you're stuck, serve someone. And I want to understand, like, why you. I mean, you hinted at it earlier, but I kind of want to call it out because I feel like this is a superpower here. But why does helping others often unlock opportunities in our own lives and businesses that maybe we fail to see otherwise?

Nick Nanton: Yeah, I mean, most of the time... I have a friend named Dr. Ned Hallowell. He's one of the top experts in the world on child psychiatry, particularly ADHD. I actually took my son to see him at one point, which is not shocking. One of my sons has ADHD as well. And he said that, "Look, when you're stewing on an issue yourself, it can create a lot of anxiety. But when you do it with someone else, within a conversation, it actually becomes problem-solving.” I think serving is a lot like that. When you get so focused on your own life because you're so worried about a problem, you can't figure out the answer, you get to be like, I have a friend named James Altucher. James has a massive podcast. He's got a book.

Justin Donald: Do you know James?

Nick Nanton: Yeah. So, I did James' docuseries on Amazon. And James talks about when he was suicidal. And he said, "You know, Nick, the best way I can explain it is like when you go to the science center and they have one of those, like, penny vortex things, and you drop the penny on it and it goes down,” he goes, "By the time you get, like, more than halfway there, there's only one way the penny can go. It's got to drop in that hole." And he said, "Nick, suicidal thoughts are like that. At some point, you convince yourself that is the only option left." He said, thankfully, he got help for that. And I think that that's sort of the example here. When you start myopically focusing on something, and you cannot solve it yourself, you start to, first of all, a lot of times you have self-pity.

And so, like, all these really negative emotions that don't do anything good for you. And it's hard to break out of it, and sometimes you can't see if the sun is going to rise in the morning. You literally can't. But the moment, look, I said earlier, all of us are looking for options. Options gives us hope. And I think hope allows us to be creative again, which gives us solutions. So, I believe that when you can't figure out what to do next, and hopefully even before that, whenever you serve other people, your life is enriched, and it opens up the door to even better thought process and flow because it will literally unlock your creativity.

So, I guess scarcity says, "What about me?" And creativity asks, "Who can I help?" And so, when you get into who can I serve today, options... Look, when you serve someone well, options show up in abundance. Like, if you don't know, if you can't get a job right now, go volunteer somewhere. And if you do a good job, they'll probably offer you a job. You know what I mean? And so, it's just all about getting out of the selfishness of just me, which our brains think that way, so we have to trick them and get out of that. And when we do that, it opens up options for a lot of other things.

Justin Donald: I love that. I had a first-time meeting today with a very impressive individual. I'm not going to say his name. And right after that, I had my training session, and my trainer knew that I was trying to get this time, just to connect, and he said, "So what happened? How did it go?" And I said, "Well, I actually focused the entire time on how can I add so much value to this person's life that he's just blown away and even humbled by the generosity that I would even care so much.” And that's what it was. It was like, I just wanted to learn about him. What do you need? How can I help? How can I serve?

My superpower is connecting people and seeing kind of the invisible connections that exist, and then I've got a pretty deep network. And so, we figured out, like, hey, there's a pro sports angle, there's a family office angle, there's strategies that can be used from a business standpoint, structuring. There's all kinds of stuff. And that was it. And so, yeah, I couldn't agree with you more, I mean, that serving really is a superpower. So, thank you for sharing that. Thank you for your time today, Nick.

Nick Nanton: Likewise.

Justin Donald: And where can people learn more about you of the work that you've done, watch the documentaries that you've created?

Nick Nanton: Yeah. If they go to nicknanton.com or find me on Instagram, or if you spell my name correctly, you're going to find me. That's the good news. Pretty rare name, other than my nephew, which I warned my cousin he was going to be buried for the rest of his life on social media and Google. But other than that, if you find me, I would love it if you opt in to my email list there or just follow me because you'll start to learn when the book's coming out, when our next documentaries are coming out. We have stuff on a lot of platforms, but, yeah, I would love to stay in touch with anyone who I can be of service to, and of course, would love to come back to any of your events and hang out again.

Justin Donald: Love it. Well, you're always welcome. We love having you. And I like ending every episode with a question for our audience. So, if you're watching this or listening to this, what is one step you can take today to move towards financial freedom and move towards living a life you truly desire on your terms? Not a life by default, but a life by design. Thanks for your time, and we'll catch you next week.