The First Step to Making Your Business More Valuable and Sellable with Eric Rozenberg – EP 309

Justin Donald: What's up, Eric? So good to have you on the show.

Eric Rozenberg: Thank you, Justin. Yeah, great to be with you here.

Justin Donald: Well, we both have our backdrops of our personal library, so I love that you are a big reader it looks like. And I'm so glad that we've gotten a chance to connect at, what was it? I think we've met at a few different places, like three different groups, one of them being Mastermind Talks, MMT. But we had run into each other, I think we had mutual friends or we've just been at several events, and it was like back to back to back. We just kept on seeing each other and hanging out. And the more we talked, the more we're like, "We got to just do a little podcast here because there's so much to talk about."

Eric Rozenberg: With great pleasure, and you'll be on my podcast later on. But you're talking about the books. Have you seen this one?

Justin Donald: Which one is it?

Eric Rozenberg: It's called The Lifestyle Investor.

Justin Donald: There it is.

Eric Rozenberg: I don't know if you have ever read about that book.

Justin Donald: There it is. I like it. Well done. Well done. I actually need to blow you up to see it better. I'm actually... I've got it. Okay, now I can see it. Yep. Well done. Nice touch. I love it, Eric. Let's get into it, brother. Let's talk about, I mean, you... So, you built a business in the event space, and without going into it, we should dive into it. You've had several exits. You've started companies, you've scaled companies, you've sold companies. You've consulted on all these different things, okay? You got big in the event space, and I think that's unique because a lot of people, I feel like, there was a season where people thought, "Oh, that's going to die. It's gone forever." Especially during COVID, right? And then it reemerged, and many would argue even stronger than it was before.

Prices are definitely ridiculous. I mean, I think it's hard to run profitable events these days. I know a lot of people, actually, that have really good name brands that won't even run live events because they can't profit on them. They're just too hard to profit. So, I want to talk to you about that. But before we get into it, you've been an entrepreneur for a lot of your life. I want to talk about the difference between entrepreneurship and corporate America. And I think your journey from corporate America to entrepreneurship is really a neat one. And I think a lot of people that listen here have made that shift or want to make that shift, and I know it's hard. So, what did entrepreneurship give you that helped you realize that you in corporate America could just never have?

Eric Rozenberg: Yeah, it's a great question. And I've always been an entrepreneur at heart. But the thing is, they always tell you if you go into the corporate route, you will learn. And sure, there are a lot of things that you learn being in corporate America. The thing for me is that, first of all, I am not politically correct. And today, if you are in corporate America, you have to be politically correct, which is extremely difficult for me. But also, and most importantly, I think that from the moment that you have a passion for something, and I love taking responsibilities. And usually, when you have the route of corporate, you need, first of all, to obviously prove that you can deliver on things, but you don't have, like, much responsibility fast enough, as far as I'm concerned.

And so, that's why I wanted to be an entrepreneur quite quickly. And it's also, for me, you benefit from the success, but you also take responsibility for the failures or for the things that you're learning, and that's what I love being an entrepreneur. Now, it's also a question of character. I love working with people. I cannot stand having to report to anyone, although when you're an entrepreneur, you're reporting to your clients, but still, there is a…

Justin Donald: It's different.

Eric Rozenberg: There's option. And it was just…

Justin Donald: Better than reporting to someone else.

Eric Rozenberg: Exactly. And I have three kids. I always wanted to spend time with my kids for the important moments without having to ask permission for it. And there are so many different aspects of it. I think at the end of the day, one is not better than the other. It's a question of character. It's a question of choice. And being born in Belgium, you know, in Belgium, the entrepreneurs are seen like crooks, like people exploiting everybody else. And here, it's almost like if you want to succeed in life or the best thing that you can do in life is be an entrepreneur. And I think the reality is in the middle, is what do you like, what is good for you, the choice you're making. But being in this environment in America, now being an American today, that's the best place in the world that you can dream of being an entrepreneur.

Justin Donald: Yeah, I love it. You broke it down really well because it's not that one's better than the other. It's that one is probably better for you, whoever you are, than the other. And it's understanding what you want, what you desire, what are the pros and cons for you, because there are pros and cons to both, right? So, I like that you broke it down beautifully. So, what's the biggest mistake that you see entrepreneurs make when they build a successful business that still depends entirely on them? We all know people that have done this.

Eric Rozenberg: Absolutely. I'm the first culprit in that. When I started my first business, and it's going to be 30 years. In September '96 was my first business. And I had a corporate events agency, and my two first clients were Cordis, Johnson & Johnson, and Café de Colombia, Juan Valdez. And my thing…

Justin Donald: Those are big clients.

Eric Rozenberg: Yes, and it's…

Justin Donald: So, nice job.

Eric Rozenberg: Serendipity of life, people that you meet, family, friends, networking. It was just amazing. And I would tell everyone, "This is my company. These are my clients. This is my brand. Nobody's going to do it better." And after close to two years, I almost burned out. So, the big mistake is thinking that you are irreplaceable. And as my late father used to say, "Cemeteries are full of people that are irreplaceable." Meaning that, yeah, everybody's replaceable. But also, it's looking at what you want to be achieving and how you want to be achieving it. No one does it alone. It's impossible to grow a business on your own. You need to be able to surround yourself. And also, again, the question of education.

In Belgium, I was raised like know your weaknesses, know your strengths, and work on your weaknesses. Until one day here it's like, “No, I don't want to work on my weaknesses. I want to have people whose strengths are my weaknesses and just focus on what I do best and what I like the most.” So, I think the biggest mistake for entrepreneur, any industry, is thinking that nobody do it as well as you, and maybe your colleague, the people you're going to hire are not going to deliver, like, 100% the way you would do it. But if it's 80% and the client is extremely happy, then it's a win.

Justin Donald: I love it. That's some of the greatest advice to scaling, some of the greatest advice to delegating, some of the greatest advice to buying your time back, so I love that. In fact, we're getting a lot of wisdom dropped down from Belgium. I had Yotis Tonnelier on, just a few weeks ago, and now we've got you. It's a one-two punch here. You guys are brilliant. And it is really interesting, though, hearing the difference in upbringings. In Belgium, it was like this. In the US, it's totally opposite. So, I love hearing that, culturally, it is rewarding here to be an entrepreneur, that there's a different pride in that profession. And I want to talk about your meetings and events business, because you built a big business there.

You had an exit. We see AI disrupting a lot of industries. I do think events is one of them. I think you'd probably agree, but there's also a nice intersection of people with AI, and I'd love to talk about it. So, if AI can automate so much of the work behind creating an event, doing an event, just putting on a big event, why do you believe that the meetings and events industry could actually become more valuable?

Eric Rozenberg: Absolutely. And we see it everywhere in the industry right now, and I'm convinced the more people use AI, the more this industry, the meetings and events industry, is going to be successful. Let me tell you why. We humans, we like communities. We like groups. We're not made to stay on our own. That's the first thing. The second thing, if you think about any business challenges, whether it is to increase sales, the relationship with customer, training people, aligning teams, down the road, you always have a face-to-face. And to be successful, you need the face-to-face. And then you have the conversation that are happening in a face-to-face. The water cooler, coffee machine conversation, they don't happen on Zoom.

Now, yes, you can basically automate a lot of things, and you should automate a lot of things. So, there are opportunities for small business owners, which is great. And when it comes to the world we live in, people want to come in person. They want to share experience together. And those experience, they're not virtual. I remember years ago, we were not talking about AI yet. I was at a meeting at the Hilton Anatole in Dallas. And suddenly…

Justin Donald: Oh, I know it. Yep. I know it well.

Eric Rozenberg: And during the break, I see one of the other ballrooms open, and people are coming dressed like characters of Star Trek. You know, it was the ancestor of Comic-Con. And I was like, "What is going on?" And so, those people, they knew each other from an online community, and they wanted to come in person. And so, we are human species, and we need to come in person. And so, for all the reasons I told you about the business, about the character of people, I know, and I see it, that people want more to come in person. Maybe smaller events than the 4,000, 5,000, 10,000 people. It was last week at SISO, the Society of Independent Show Organizers conference in Seattle.

We were, I think, 200, 300. You know what? We were able to meet someone the first day and see that person again before the end of the conference, and we were able to follow... There was, like, one agenda. You don't have to make a choice between 10 concurrent sessions, and that creates a learning atmosphere, but also an exchange atmosphere. So, the more people use AI, the more we're convinced that it's going to be booming. And basically, there was one person who put out a tweet on X last year talking about the future of the event industry. It's Mark Cuban. And Mark Cuban himself recognized the importance of the in-person, the face-to-face meeting, and he said that the meeting planner would be one of the job of the future.

Justin Donald: Yeah. It's interesting to think about that, and obviously, yes, we are designed to be in community. We're designed to interact, and we're designed to go deep, and have people in our lives that allow us to live a more rich and robust life, and people that we can serve as well. So, yeah, powerful thoughts. Where do you see the biggest opportunities for entrepreneurs who know how to combine AI with the human side of business?

Eric Rozenberg: That's a great question. When you look at that, it's like my AI, Eric AI, what I've done, obviously, it's all the things I've done the last 30 years in the meetings and event industry. And if it wasn't for Marga, the company, the platform on which I am, I wouldn't be able to have that. There they have many bright people. The founder did a TEDx conference on AI in 2018 to tell you how long they've been in it. But their goal is to give access to knowledge in the most human way as possible. And so, when people, they open Chat, Claude, My AI, and they ask the same question, they go, "Oh my God. You know the industry. It's related to you." So, the more you do it with the AI technology and the human aspect, which I think that will be much more important in the future, I think those entrepreneurs will be successful regardless of the industry.

But another point that I wanted to mention, and that your question makes me think of, the reason that people will also want to come in person, they want to make sure that they're really talking to Justin, that it's not an avatar, that it's not a fake video. That it's him, and that I'm benefiting from the conversation with him. So, it's using and leveraging the technology and keeping the human aspect as much as possible, if that makes sense.

Justin Donald: Oh, it makes tons of sense. And we have people all the time that come to our events that we just... A couple of years ago, we started opening up guest tickets for people that have been vetted that we think could be a good fit for the community, but we'll open up 15, 20 seats at our live events. And the most consistent thing we hear is, "We wanted to see if Justin is who he is on the podcast, like, in real life, in person. You know, is that how he is? Is that who he is?" And I love that. I want people to do that. I think that's part of them doing their due diligence on me, or on Lifestyle Investor. Like, awesome. Like, you should... I hope people do question those that you hear on podcasts or see on social media, because I think that most people out there show up one way, and then they actually are totally different in real life.

Eric Rozenberg: Absolutely.

Justin Donald: So, I encourage people to do that. And by the way... Yeah, go ahead.

Eric Rozenberg: Sorry. No, no, I just wanted to say, having seen you speak in public, and having been able to talk to you privately, I can testify to that, that the real Justin is the one that you hear on the podcast.

Justin Donald: Well, thank you. That's super kind of you. And I just want to be the same everywhere. I just want to be consistent. And I think that's important, and I love people. I love meeting people, I love teaching, I love learning. I love being in environments that challenge me and are intellectually stimulating. So, for me, events matter so much. On the AI front, we've got a Justin AI, like you have an Eric AI, and it's all my public-facing stuff. So, it's podcasts, it's my book, it's interviews that I've done. I'm a writer for Forbes, so it's articles, and I was a writer before for Kiplinger. And so, it's like all that. And then we have our Lifestyle Investor AI, which is everything that is just for our members.

And then we have rolled out this year our Family Office AI that is aggregating everything that we've done to help people build out their own family office and figure out what are the steps that they should take, how can they have a fractional family office, how do they build, like the first step of a family office for someone that's never done it. So, we love AI. We use it a ton. I think it's great. And I totally agree with everything that you just said.

Eric Rozenberg: Thank you. And I just want to add one thing your point about cost for events. There are some events where people, I think we’re just selling dreams or without going into the details, but they're not really bringing concrete value in the long term and actually focus on themself and making money. Great. Again, I have nothing against making money. But at the end of the day, it was selling tickets, as many tickets as possible, without thinking really about the value, without really thinking about the room and what they were in. And they've been faced with, yes, there is a rise of cost. So, if you look at after COVID than before, the salaries have gone up in our industry 25%. That's a fixed cost.

And by the way, they were not very high, so you can always debate that. And then you can take my friend, Mike Dominguez, who's the CEO of Associate Luxury Hotel International, always give this example of the hamburger. The hamburger, you have the bread, you have the lettuce, you have the tomato, you have the meat, and you have the sauce. Every element has been going up 10%, 15%, 20%. So, you put all of that together, yes, the cost of running events has gone up. Now, if your goal is to sell a maximum of tickets at the lowest price, obviously there's a challenge. But I do believe that people like you, that I keep on bringing value and helping people and maybe adapting the price a little bit because of just the fixed cost I just mentioned, you will always be thriving then.

Justin Donald: It's interesting. I know so many people in the event space that they do events. It's a total loss leader. They lose a lot of money. I mean, I know people that are definitely in the millions of dollars per event that they do. And some people will say, like, "Hey, I don't see any tangible ROI, but there's a community-building aspect. There's a cultural aspect, and for us it's worth it." For a lot of other people, they need them to be profitable, or they need the back end of whatever they're selling to make it profitable. And then that changes the focus then of what the event is, right? So, it's not just we're giving value. It's, hey, we need to sell people on stuff, and we just have never wanted to do that.

That's just never our MO. So, people that come to our events are always blown away. They're always like, "Oh, we thought you'd be, like, pitching stuff. You don't pitch anything." And we're like, "No. We've got content. Our events are for our members. We just happen to open it up to a few people that are not in the mastermind yet."

Eric Rozenberg: Right. I love that.

Justin Donald: So, yeah, it is an interesting world in events, and it blows my mind at the cost, but we're just going to keep doing them because we love it, and I like to teach. I like to learn. I learn a lot from the people we bring in. But I like the camaraderie. I like the new relationships. I think it's important. I think it's powerful. We run three big live events a year, and then we do another 10-ish, 10 to 11 small meetups, in different cities. And sometimes it's in Napa, sometimes it's just we’re doing a golf trip here next month that's going to be epic. We did a Porsche trip, Porsche racing in Birmingham, Alabama. So, we do like fun stuff like that.

And sometimes it's just a meetup in Scottsdale, where we brought a bunch of the pro athletes at the PAC event that we were at to join us at our member meetup, which was a ton of fun. And we'll do cool stuff like that. All right. I'm going to take a hard pivot here because I want to challenge people, because I think most people choose misery over uncertainty. And there's this psychology of staying stuck, and I know you know what I'm talking about. I want to know why you think people tolerate years of misery in whatever their corporate gig is or doing the thing that they're doing that they absolutely despise, rather than just take the uncertainty that comes with making a change, just taking a step in a different direction where it's unknown.

Eric Rozenberg: Absolutely. It's one of my favorite lines that I probably live by. But it’s, yes, people will choose misery over uncertainty, and I found out the hard way. It took me 10 years to convince my wife that our kids had no future in Belgium, in Europe, for reasons we can discuss, but obviously the rise of antisemitism and everything that's going on there. Now, you can agree or disagree. It doesn't matter. I think that from the moment that you reach a conclusion and then you're not acting on it, that's very sad. And so, finally, she was totally aligned, and we left. And at that moment, I had a lot of people telling me, "Oh, it's not that bad. You're exaggerating. You're this, you're that." And obviously now, a few years later, they're telling us that we left on time.

And I made the parallel with anything in life, starting with your question about people leaving their corporate job to become an entrepreneur. They're miserable. They don't like their boss. They don't like the environment. They are lacking flexibility. They think they should be paid more, and they're still there. And so, it's probably something in the human psyche, but obviously it's a question of mindset and having the courage to jump and say, "You know what? Don't know what's going to happen. I know that I don't like the situation I'm in right now, and if I don't make a change, nobody's going to come and save me and change."

Justin Donald: That's right.

Eric Rozenberg: But the fear is the uncertainty. It's when you have the paycheck every month, when, basically, a lot of the decisions are taken for you, that's a certain comfort zone, and it's very hard to leave that comfort zone. So, that's why I always say that people will choose misery over uncertainty. And I do believe that when you make the analysis, and there's always three things: you lead, you follow, or you get out of the way. But if you stay in the place where you are miserable, I just don't understand. Yes, uncertainty is scary, but it's always much better than not doing anything.

Justin Donald: You got to be careful of just good enough, just good enough to keep you on the hook, right? It's a dangerous place to be. It is totally okay if that's where you want to be. And by the way, some people love their corporate job, and that's great. It's a small percentage.

Eric Rozenberg: Absolutely.

Justin Donald: But there are people that love it. I think that's awesome. And again, we said earlier, pros and cons to corporate or entrepreneurship, but there are people listening to this that know they need to move on and are afraid, and hopefully this can give them the confidence to do it. In fact, Eric, you've coached people in this space. What is the first step that someone can take when they know that they're unhappy but they're too afraid to make a major move?

Eric Rozenberg: That's an awesome question. It's defining their 10-year vision. And I had an amazing experience in 2020. It was Friday the 13th of February in 2020. You remember what happened that day, that weekend? The whole world shut down. And I was with my former EO forum around the campfire in a house in Kissimmee, north of Orlando. And we were watching our phone and going into, "The NBA is closing this, the NFL is closing this, the NHL is closing that." The whole world was shutting down. And the theme of our retreat that had been decided before was your life in 10 years. And I was like, "Really? What have you been smoking? My life in 10 years? How can I even..." And I went through the entire process. It's phenomenal.

What I wrote at the end of that weekend, and the days after, and what I've done since, it's phenomenal. So, when you have defined this 10-year vision, this long-term vision, then to me you can come back to the next maximum three years when it comes to business plan, max. But at least where you need to be and what you need to be doing this year, what you need to be doing this month, this week, so that you trying always to be in alignment. It's going to help you, especially when you are a business owner and entrepreneur. We all know it's a rollercoaster. So, when you are in the down or in the valley of doubt and scare, having that long-term view, that's going to keep you going. And that's why I would say it's the very first thing to do is to define that long-term vision.

Justin Donald: That's awesome. And you're so systematic, I love it, Eric. And when you can get that clarity long-term, it often helps you make the tough decisions today. Because if you've built a compelling enough vision of the future, you'll take some discomfort today to get there. But I think if your future is not bright or if there's no clarity around it, then it's really hard to take action, because you don't know what you're moving towards. You don't know that it's going to be better. I think that's wise. All right. Let's talk about being successful in business and having a successful company and then also, like, a sellable asset, because there's a difference between a job and a company.

And I think you've got this philosophy of building real companies with predictable revenue, with strong teams, with less owner dependency, which I love, I totally agree with. And I want to talk about this. So, what has to be true for a business to become something that is actively or actually sellable rather than simply a successful job for the owner?

Eric Rozenberg: Absolutely. It's a great question. The standard processes, the delegation part, you can summarize all of this for me in one sentence. The less you are involved in your business, or the less you need to be involved in your business, the higher the value. And so, it's making sure that you have a succession plan. You have a level of management that is supporting you. You have the people that are front with the customer, that are serving the customer, and basically you can go on holidays and switch off everything for a few weeks without the business changing.

And that whole... And again, it's a question of mindset, but then it's okay. What is the long-term vision? What type of people do I need? What type of client do I want to serve? What are the processes that I want to put in place? It doesn't mean that the goal is to sell. The goal for me is to have a sellable business.

Justin Donald: But that's the key right there, right?

Eric Rozenberg: But that doesn't mean you have to sell it.

Justin Donald: Doesn't mean you have to sell it, but you're building a totally different business. I remember early on it’s like in one of our businesses, it was like we're looking to raise money. Well, they actually want to know, like, how are you building this? Is this a lifestyle business? Is this a business that you're looking to scale? Like, do you want to have an exit? Do you not want to have? Like, all this stuff matters, and it is the most valuable business if you build it to be sellable, like at some point in time to sell. So, I love that you're talking about this.

Eric Rozenberg: Absolutely. And again, it is going back to what is it that you want. A lot of my friends in Entrepreneurs' Organizations that we're both members of, they're always talking about, "I'm building the next unicorn." Great. Happy. Wonderful. Happy for you. That's not what I want. It's not the same level of revenue. It's not the same type of business. In your field, besides The Lifestyle Investor, I always recommend to read The Psychology of Money, which I love, from Morgan Housel, because it really forces you to ask the question and look at yourself in the mirror about what you want to be building. But now, again, the question is, how much do you pay attention to what the others are saying?

I'm not saying that you shouldn't. It's always great to have an advisor. I love to have advisors, but at the end of the day, you take your own decision and they do them, I do me, and I know what I want and how I want to develop it. And in order to have a real business, you need to have teams, you have to have clear responsibilities and operating system. You know what? At the end of the day, I think that most of us know what should be happening. But the rubber hits the road is in the execution and accountability, and that's the most difficult.

Justin Donald: Totally agree. And in fact, I've got one more question for you around that before we wrap up. If an entrepreneur wanted to make their business more valuable and less dependent on them over the next 12 months, what would you have them focus on first?

Eric Rozenberg: First, there are several things that I would tell you to focus on. I would say ask yourself the question, whatever you do, ask yourself the question, "Should I be the one doing this?" And systematically look at delegating. Make a list of all the things you can be delegating and to whom. See if you have the right people, the right process. How could AI be leveraged? But that's more than one thing that you ask, but I would say the first thing that I would tell them, for everything you're doing from morning until evening, ask yourself, "Should I be the one doing that?"

Justin Donald: That's so good. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Eric. It's always a pleasure to hang out and connect, and you're a brilliant guy, so it's awesome having you on the show. Where can people go to learn more about you, your podcast? You got a couple of books. Like, give us all the info.

Eric Rozenberg: Thank you. So, yeah, I wrote two books: Meeting at C-Level and a personal one for my daughters, which is Before It's Too Late: Love Letters to My Daughters in America. It has nothing to do with business, but the one I'm the most proud of.

Justin Donald: That's awesome.

Eric Rozenberg: They can go on eventbusinessformula.com. They can definitely go on LinkedIn. It's Eric Rozenberg, Eric with a C and Rozenberg with a Z. And, in the future, they will be listening to your interview on The Business of Meetings podcast, which is the podcast that I've had for six years now.

Justin Donald: I love it. And for clarity's sake, you do consulting. You work with people that are not just in the event space, but obviously, if you're in the event space, you're very well-known and just have a great track record.

Eric Rozenberg: Well, actually, no. I'm actually focusing only on people that are in the meetings and event industry.

Justin Donald: Okay. Hey, niche down. I love it. I love it. Well, very good. Eric, thanks again for joining us, and I love ending every episode with a question for our audience. So, if you're watching this, if you're listening to this, what is one step you can take today to move towards financial freedom and really just move towards living the life that you truly desire on your terms, not by default, but a life by design? What can you take from Eric today to move you along your path? Thanks so much, and we'll catch you next week.

Eric Rozenberg: Thank you, Justin.