Why High Achievers Sabotage Their Relationships (And How To Fix It) with Stefanos Sifandos – EP 287

Justin Donald: What's up, Stef? Good to have you back on the show.

Stefanos Sifandos: Good to see you. Real happy to be here.

Justin Donald: Yeah. Well, the last time we were hanging out is when you lived here in Austin, and you've moved back to Southern California outside of San Diego, I think.

Stefanos Sifandos: Yep.

Justin Donald: I know you being in the ocean every day is really important to you. And we were talking a little bit about that off-air. So, welcome back, and it sounds like life is good for you.

Stefanos Sifandos: Yeah, man. Life is, I mean, when I'm in the ocean, even when life's bad, it's still pretty good.

Justin Donald: Yeah. Well, I love the fact that we can kind of go part two. You've been on the show before. I'm really excited to unpack some more things because this time, I want to dig in more with a lot of our audience, which are hard-charging entrepreneurs, top-performing executives, or business professionals, people that can really go press the gas to the floor, and kind of gun it. And there's definitely positives that come from that, but there's a toll that it takes, and I think that toll sometimes shows up in our health. It often shows up in our relationships. So, I want to unpack that with you here today. I think that will be a lot of fun.

I know your new book unpacks a lot of that, and we can certainly dive into that. But I have such fond memories of you running several breath work sessions with our Lifestyle Investor mastermind at our live event. So, a lot of people don't maybe necessarily know that you are a member of the Mastermind. And one of your givebacks was you wanted to help people really work on their body, work on their inner spirit. And something I think you talk a lot about is that when you have things right on the inside, right, your mentality just even like health and wellness on the inside, it really enriches and amplifies what happens on the outside, right?

So, we'll get into that, but you run some masterful sessions. Our members always love going through your breath work, and you do more than just breath work, though, because you're intertwining so many other elements into the work that you do. So, it's just good to have you here, man.

Stefanos Sifandos: Thank you. Thank you, Justin. I appreciate that.

Justin Donald: Well, where should we start here? I mean, I feel like with successful people, I feel like we have a lot of people that are hard charging, but I often think that there's this belief like, okay, so let's take me, for example, as a parent, or the success that I've had in business or investing. I think sometimes it's easier for me to say, "Hey, business is so much easier for me than this thing that I haven't done a lot, or this thing that I have to work on harder, or this thing that gives me negative feedback that I don't want to hear right now, aka a relationship,” right? And so, I see a lot of entrepreneurs, and I've been there myself, and in different seasons, maybe I can even show back up there again.

But you find these successful people, highly successful, struggling with their marriages, struggling with intimate relationships despite all this business success or all this wealth, and I'd love to unpack that a little with you.

Stefanos Sifandos: Yeah. So, great observations. And I think people that are watching this that have accumulated material wealth, that have created success in their niche, in their industry, in this space, I would say a vast majority can relate to this, where they've created this success, the world is seeing them as successful. They may even see themselves as successful, or maybe not. That's another conversation. We'll get to that. But there's an emptiness that they feel inside, like, actually, maybe I'll get to it now. It's like that enough is never enough, and they're constantly chasing, and if that pattern is familiar to you, know that it's very common not to minimize your experience if you're listening and watching this, but also know that that's a compensation.

And so, when we look at life, and I'm speaking from my own subjective experience here, and also 25 years in working with elite elites, high performers, tip of the spear individuals that are the best of the best at what they do in whatever industry they're in, in military, sports, businesses, etcetera, that come from really matters. It determines sustainability of that action, continuously, consistently, and it determines alignment. So, if there's internal friction, because the compensation that come from is I want to run away from the pain that I've felt that I'm suppressing and repressing, because that's what we do as humans.

And one way I'll do that is by creating success in my life, aka, I've got this big pain. I need more pleasure, more validation, more external people looking at me, saying, “You're amazing,” more wealth, more material success, more access to resources, more access to experiences, more distraction, more pleasure, right, more dopamine. If the ‘come from’ is that because you're running from something, it's not going to be sustainable, and soon there's going to be holes in the bucket, and it's going to leak. And you're going to start trying to plug them up, and you start to get overwhelmed, and you start to feel more pain. And so, you need more cover-up, more success, more validation, more everything to cover up more pain.

And the interesting thing is, what a paradox is, is that if you just deal with the source, the core issue, core reason why you're behaving that way, why you're being that way in the world, it tends to level out. And there's no need, not that there's no need to take action anymore and continue creating success and being creative and employing hundreds of people or innovating the business world, and so forth, and just making more money, that doesn't necessarily have to stop, but the come from stops. So, energetically, your relationship to the things that you're doing changes. You're more open to life. You're able to problem-solve with greater efficacy. You experience less stress, you sleep better. You're able to attract and recognize key personnel that would help your business expand, or help your creative outlet expand, or whatever that may be, you start relating differently to your partners, to your children.

You start having more space in your life, internally and externally. There are so many benefits that come from actually just facing ourselves and facing the stuff that so many of us run from. I'll say one more thing. I'll pass it on to you. I have a theory, if you like, I haven't tested this properly, but as an example, my guess is that 90% plus of all elite extreme like extreme athletes, not even elite, just extreme athletes, have experienced some pretty either severe trauma or intensity, great intensity in their lives, that they're masking that and running from that by doing something, greater the pain, greater the pleasure, by doing something extreme to really avoid that thing that they're running from. And big business and success in business is not that much different.

Justin Donald: Yeah, it's interesting. So, I can relate to this a lot in earlier years of life, especially as a hungry entrepreneur that it was like nothing satisfied me on the business front, and I was just willing to do whatever to be the top performer, to outwork other people, or whatever the case is. And definitely for me, in that season, relationships took a toll. I mean, I picked work first, right? And luckily, back then, because I was so immature relationally, or at least with a serious relationship, I knew that, so I didn't get into many serious relationships. But the moment that I recognized I wanted to do that, it was like this immediate shift. And it's like, “I can't be working like this. I can't do this when I have a wife. I can't do this when I have a daughter. This is unhealthy.”

And so, it is interesting. It was like once the season was there, once I knew what I wanted, once I had clarity, things changed, and as I matured in my ability to have deep and meaningful relationships, it like helped me create boundaries around everything else. So, that was certainly a blind spot for me. I'm curious what you see as the biggest blind spots that high achievers have when it comes to love and connection, and just intimate or important relationships.

Stefanos Sifandos: Yeah. What they're doing is acceptable to themselves and to their families. It's not a “problem” because they're so blinded by this thing that is keeping them away from facing some of their darkest truths or their deepest pain. And so, of course, there's an addiction, or a compulsion to keep moving towards the habit or the practice or the routine, right, of making money, of doing business in a particular way that continues to pull them away from that. This could be interesting. There's longitudinal and cross-cultural studies done on individuals that are on their deathbed, meaning they have three or less months to live, or thereabouts, right? And they are asked certain questions.

Almost none say, “I wish I had more money.” I'm not saying money's bad. I love money. Love what it does for us, love the tool that it is, love the access that it gives us personally. No one said, though, “I wish I'd made my business bigger,” and if they did, it was in service of contribution, of impact. What people were saying was, “I wish I had said sorry. I wish I had repaired my relationship with my father or my mother, whatever it may be. I wish I'd spent more time with my children.” It was relationally oriented. And a lot of it was about softening to their ego, surrendering to their ego and to their personality, to the parts that are highly protective, and the survival strategy, the psychological and sociological survival strategies we implement as people, to help protect our egos and keep us “safe” like relationally and emotionally safe.

And so, I think that's very telling, and these were extensive studies done, thousands and thousands of individuals. So, it's telling us something about the human condition, about what we truly value yet avoid, because there is difficulty and challenge in intimacy and closeness. And it's very convenient to engage in something that validates us, that says to us, "You are awesome.” And to just pause on that for a moment and look inward, it's a very challenging thing to do, and it's not for the faint-hearted. But here's the one thing that I will say, and I'll pass it to you, is the amount of fortitude and resilience and toughness and innovation and creativity that entrepreneurs generally require has characteristics, those characteristics can transfer in parallel to the journey of the inward self.

They really can. You take what you've done in business and in the world, and you just apply the same grit, which is another characteristic, and focus another characteristic on your inward life. Then what accompanies that is compassion, self-love, other elements, but you've got the foundations. They're there.

Justin Donald: That's awesome. If we unpack this a little bit more, and we start talking about the nervous system and kind of what exists this hidden driver behind attraction, communication, conflict, conflict resolution, how do you see chronic stress from entrepreneurship really affecting attraction and communication at home? We see this all the time with entrepreneurs that are killing it in business, but they come home, and they're not killing it at home. And part of the reason they're not killing it at home is because maybe that attraction has worn off, or maybe they're showing up with leftovers when they get home, right?

Stefanos Sifandos: Yeah. So, most people, again, like if their crux, or if their addiction, or their drug per se, is entrepreneurship, is business, is building and creating in the material world, again, I want to be very clear, nothing wrong with this. This is about come from, but if that's happening as a compensation, they are going to be left with very little in any other environment. They're going to disassociate. And so, they're either not going to be present. And presence is massive when it comes to human interaction, human relation, quality, human relationships. And presence is our ability to not only physically be there, but emotionally be there, be attentive, actively listen, seek to understand the other. You're prioritizing that relationship.

I'm giving some definition and structure to this, as opposed to just saying, “Hey, be present.” I’m not giving any definition to it. Being present also means that you can be in relationship with someone, conversation, communication, and if there's conflict or tension, you don't necessarily become reactive. You're not immediately in your survival strategies. You're able to be present because you've done a level of inner work to really, again, prioritize seeking to understand the person. Doesn't mean you don't have boundaries, but you get curious, you're compassionate, you're communicative, if you've got something to share and say, and you're able to really listen and not inject your own pain into that moment, because you have a greater level of relational maturity.

All of that, if that's not practice, just like building a business, you're not going to have access to it. And again, home is not going to be really your safe place. Your safe place, so to speak, is going to be where your addictions lie, or where your compensation is played out, where you're really validated. And so, we will find ways to “self-sabotage” to then give us excuses to unconsciously and consciously go back to the places in our lives that feel good, right? Like, business, like, "Hey, my employees love me at business. Hey, I make lots of money at business. Hey, I can buy my next Ferrari with my business. Well, I'm going to go there. I'm not going to be at home where my daughter doesn't like me, or she's upset at me, or my kids don't listen to me, or my wife and I aren't intimate. Like, what's the point?” Right?

So, people will find excuses, but they'll stay in that, and I'm generalizing here, but they'll stay in that, because there's a part of them that really longs for that, but they can't connect to that desire and longing, because they've really X that within themselves, they've distanced themselves from that desire, and so there's internal conflict. And so, they behave, they lash out. And that you see that happen over and over again.

Justin Donald: It's interesting stuff. As you're talking, I have these flashbacks to different moments in my life, where I see the moment of where I messed up. I see the moment of where I gained clarity and started making better decisions. But it's so funny hearing you talk, and it's like, “Yep, I identify with that. I've been there. I'm glad I'm here now,” or "Oh, you know what? I used to be better at that, and I must have fallen off a little bit.” And so, as I hear this like I hear you say presence and how important that is. And one of my favorite books that has been probably the single most impactful book I've ever read on relationships is Gary Chapman's 5 Love Languages.

And for those of us that have a spouse that their number one or number two primary need is quality time, presence is the most important thing you can do, and that just means that the moment you take out your phone, when you are trying to have presence, the presence is gone. I learned that the hard way, and I was a slow learner early in our relationship. And I like put in all this time, like I'm present, maybe we've been talking for an hour, and I've been so good, and then I check my phone, and it's like that whole hour disappears, like the whole quality time, it's now no longer quality. I remember getting home and early, I would be so exhausted from work. I went in super early, I grinded all day, I'm home.

And I just remember coming in with low energy, or I'd come in while I was on a phone call, all these things that are just so bad for the relationship, and I didn't see it. I was totally blind. And luckily, my wife has a lot of patience, and I learned from her. I learned from others. Eventually, I made the decision. I cannot bring a conversation into the home. I actually need to put my game face on when I get home. So, like I remember just sitting in my car in the garage. If I'm on a call, I literally wrap the call up before I go in. I take some deep breaths. I think through how I'm going to show up. I think through going to walk in. I'm going to give my wife a hug and a kiss. I'm going to walk up to my daughter, I'm going to give her a hug, and in that order, like I'm thinking, unless she bum-rushes me first.

But it's like I play it out ahead of time. And our home life totally transformed from that point on, from me making home so much of a priority that it's like, "Okay, game on now. Work doesn't exist. You are my priority, and I'm going to make you feel like the most important people in the world because to me, you are.”

Stefanos Sifandos: I agree. I think what you're touching on, to put some more form and definition and structure to it is transition time, but more importantly, deliberate, proactive leadership and deliberate transition time, meaning that when you finish that expression or attention of, "This is work. This is what I'm building the world. This is what I'm creating. These are the people that I'm working with. And then I'm transitioning environments, and I'm moving into a home life,” whatever that looks like, whether you've got children or even if it's your own home and you're the only one that lives there, this applies absolutely the same, right? What is your deliberate transition time look like?

Does it look like, “Hey, I'm going to go walk on the beach for 20 minutes, or I'm going to go for a walk before I actually go home. Am I going to listen to some binaural beats? Am I going to read something? Am I going to do what you did, like take a few breaths, like really center, visualize? Okay. What does it look like when I walk through the door?” And what you're doing is, like, again, it's just pretty obvious to me, like, you've made a commitment to your family. Whatever your commitments are, they’re personal to you, but you're married, you've had a ceremony celebrating your love and celebrating your commitment in front of people that you care about. That means something. Right now, granted, things change.

A year down the track, five years, 10 years, things can change. I get that. That's not the conversation here. But if you're still in it and you're committing to that relationship, why not give it some level of priority, like, why not make it more meaningful, right? Like, you're going to be in it, you may as well be in it happy or supportive, going home and going, “Oh, I hate being home. I don't want to do that.” Well, then we got to have another conversation, right? So, if you got to be in it, be in it. And so, that deliberate transition time, especially for people that are right-brain dominant or neurodivergent, which many entrepreneurs, by the way, are. Many entrepreneurs are neurodivergent.

The way they see the world is very fast-paced. It's in quick frames. They have a certain characteristic, right? And so, if you're like that, having space where you transition from task to task, or thing to thing, environment to environment, can be very, very helpful and also really useful in, again, maximizing presence, maximizing connection, minimizing conflict. And we are addicted to conflict in different ways. That's another conversation, but ultimately we don't want it. So, minimizing conflict, that's a healthy thing to do. And when you're proactive with that, and you're leading that, like you said, my whole home environment changed because you made a decision to be different and embrace the value that you committed to being your family unit.

Justin Donald: Yeah. And it's powerful. It's palpable, right? Like you can feel it. You can experience that. When they feel like a priority, things are just different. Things are better, right? And by the way, not that I'm doing this out of the fact that I want them to reciprocate it, but I do think it is pretty normal that that is reciprocated, right? Like what kind of goes on? I mean, for sure, with kids, we already know that. But I do think even with your spouse, I see that happening. I even remember early on, when we were so super early on, I was dragging my feet on whether I should propose or not. Was Jennifer the one or not? And I just remember always thinking about it like, "Well, what does she do for me?” or "Is she right for me?”

It was a very selfish way of looking at the relationship. Like, it's almost like, let me measure up her against my other options, not that I had any other options. Like, I mean, she was the only person that I dated when we were dating, but it was almost just an unhealthy way of going about it. And by the way, it's probably healthy if you're looking at that from like a business standpoint of like, what's the best option for me? Where am I going to thrive the most? What would pour into me the most? Or what would I pour into the most? But I had this reframe. I went to a Tony Robbins event, and he had talked about presence, and I kind of had this epiphany that I wasn't as present as I could be.

But I also had this epiphany where he said something to the fact of like, "Relationships are not 50/50. It's not like you give this, you can get that. It's 100%/100%.” And that just kind of blew me away. And I was like, “You know what? I actually need to show up in this relationship, regardless of how Jennifer responds. I need to show up 100% for her.” And I was like, "Let me do this challenge for a month where I just show up. I just love on her.” I try to be the best version of myself who I can be for her. And even that like was so eye-opening, it was like, “Oh my goodness, of course, this is the woman that I want to marry,” and the way that she responded from it, it was just beautiful, but I had the wrong mindset going in. I had the wrong mechanics on top of it.

That was a powerful experiment and reminder. And by the way, it's the same thing in marriage today. We celebrated our 15-year anniversary. It's the same thing today. It's like, “Well, whenever I feel like the relationship lulls, why don't I just pour back into her?” And it's amazing, the fire that's lit from doing that. And it's just so funny that we can make things so complicated.

Stefanos Sifandos: Oh, man, we do. We’re so complicated and complex. We’re layered as humans are. We’re multi-layered, I think multi-experiential, multi-dimensional, whatever you want to call it. So, we’re multi-interested humans, right? And we do overcomplicate things because we get in our own way. We have fears and contractions in our nervous system. You mentioned nervous system earlier. We run this sympathetic, either low grade or high grade sympathetic nervous system. We’re hypervigilant. We don’t really trust people. This is largely unconscious. We don’t know why we push people away when conflict feels too intense or something’s pushing against our value set. We can’t be in mature relational dynamics because we’re often never taught.

And again, like we find refuge in external success. But something that you said that was really interesting for me was when you made that choice to give 100%, yes, I believe it impacted your marriage or your potential marriage back then and the relationship and your wife, but it impacted you.

Justin Donald: Totally.

Stefanos Sifandos: Because live with yourself.

Justin Donald: That’s right.

Stefanos Sifandos: How were you waking up every morning? How were you going to sleep every night with a greater sense of integrity and connection to yourself? Yeah, the thing that people ask of us, again, like you’ll hear this very common for that business owner, that entrepreneur that works a lot and works hard. Again, not saying don’t work a lot or work hard, park that just for a second. Again, like if you’re getting anxiety or anxiousness or like pushback, hey, well, I don’t want to work less, well, that’s good information. Just check on that, because we’re not saying that. We’re not actually saying that, but just checking what’s happening with your body if that’s happening because that’s information about your compulsions, your addictions, your reasons for that, or the habits that you’ve accumulated and that you’re not possibly open to anything else.

So, again, we’re not saying work less, per se. But the thing that people ask of us, like, be more present. Put your phone in a drawer. Don’t look at your phone when you’re at home. These are common things. I mean, my wife has said it to me. I run my business on my phone, per se. Like, it’s a common thing. But the thing that people ask of us is also often really good for us because in me, and I’m going to make an assumption, you correct me if I’m wrong, putting your phone away as an example and being present, it gives you more access to the present moment, to the joys and the unraveling of your daughter growing up and you see more of her, which is very meaningful and special just from a memory bank perspective, but from a connection and building trust perspective and those familial bonds, right?

Justin Donald: Yes.

Stefanos Sifandos: It gives you an opportunity to be there more available, like really know her and she gets to know you. But what it also does is when we’re able to be more present and we’re less distracted with things that aren’t in our immediate environment, we’re more in our truth. And so, from a physiological perspective, more serotonin moves through our bodies. From that perspective, it lays foundations for greater gratitude, and we know that the science behind gratitude and the power of gratitude, but also, you forget about the science for a second. Not to make it through technical, but the relational component of gratitude, are you able to really be there and be grateful and appreciative and be warm in your body?

And all of that is, these are desirable states to be in as opposed to feeling tense and distracted and overwhelmed and stressed and, oh, I’ve got to make this call and I’ve got to make sure that that person’s okay and that side of my– oh, I’m going to have to work until midnight. All good. That’s okay. And what is it pulling you from? What are you missing out on? Fast track, fast forward to your deathbed, what are the things that you’re going to be saying? You’re going to be saying, oh, I wish I’d made that phone call more often and not seeing my daughter jumping on the trampoline.

Justin Donald: Right.

Stefanos Sifandos: And with joy on her face and laughing and smiling, I mean, that’s priceless, man.

Justin Donald: That’s right. Yeah. So spot on. It’s interesting because I feel like I’m going to talk about another thing that I have struggled with and I think other entrepreneurs and high charging, business professionals deal with is, like the high achievers sabotage through, it’s like we sabotage love through trying to overcontrol people or situations or avoidance in general or performance, like specific performance. So, I’d love to know, like, what you think overcontrol looks like in a relationship and why it can be so damaging?

Stefanos Sifandos: Yeah. So, why it can be so damaging is because it creates a distance in intimacy and connection, which ruptures trust. When there’s no trust or where there’s very little trust, there’s a very little sense of belonging. Belonging is foundational. Just go back to Adam and Eve. I don’t have to say anymore, like belongingness is, and this is actually not to promote my second book. It’s not even out yet. We will be out soon, but a year or two.

But belongingness is the central theme of my second book, right? It is so not spoken to and it is everything. So, when those things are happening, we don’t feel like we belong. And so, if we don’t belong in the relationship, we don’t want to be there. And so, then we start finding ways and reasons and excuses if you are to not be there. This is where it looks like self-sabotage and, to some degree in one reality, it absolutely is.

But what’s really underneath the self-sabotage is self-protection because we have a fear of intimacy, a fear of getting close. Maybe intimacy was unsafe growing up or getting close was unsafe, right? That could look like it was violence in the home, or your mother was a perfectionist and she demanded perfection upon you, or your father only approved of you when you got high grade or did really well at sport, right, as an example. And so, intimacy came with conditions. Love came with conditions.

And so, again, like why do we control? Okay, so we control because we don’t want to feel the pain that was unfelt in those moments that we’ve suppressed and they still live in our tissues. Those issues live in our tissues at a cellular level, in our nervous system. It’s what drives us and propels us to be high charging and high performing, right? But the downside of that is it’s again, a compensation. And so, we feel, again, most people, I shouldn’t say most, let me take that back. Let me say many people, very common, our power was lost. We gave it away. It was taken from us. Filling the void of what that may look like. You got bullied, again, abuse in the home. Parents split up, move around a lot. I’m just giving you some examples, right? Didn’t do well and got reprimanded for it.

And as kids, we’re self-referential. So, we make that mean that it’s our fault, right? We’re responsible for that. And then, over decades, those stories we tell ourselves form beliefs and values and self-worth, like our self-worth is predicated upon those informative childhood experiences very, very– they imprint upon us very powerfully because we’re so susceptible to the world. We hypnagogic in the way we move through the world and we’re absorbing everything like a sponge, and then we make it mean that we’re useless. We’re worthless.

So, no one wants to feel like that. And when people do feel like that, they either kill themselves literally, or they work through it and they move beyond it. But very few people get to that place. So, what do we do? We suppress, we compensate, back to the compensation, right? Like we got to do good things, greater the pain, greater the pleasure to feel better. And so, control, you asked about control. Controlling the relationship, controlling work, controlling our expressions. It helps us feel safe. Power given away, power taken or power lost. Many of us have that experience in different forms.

So, when we’re in control and we know more, when we try and make the other person do what we think we want or what we think is right or we believe to be beneficial for us, we can take an exhale and relax, right? The problem is most people don’t like being in control. That’s a problem. And those that do that are maybe very passive and so forth will then trigger that person in their own way in different ways because the person being in control doesn’t just want the person to be controlled. They want to have a force over the control. And if that element of force isn’t there and friction isn’t there, they’ll get bored and they’ll think they’re not in control. Therefore, they’ll think they’re not in power. So, they’ll go find someone that is either more submissive or fights and is more submissive, if that makes sense, right? So, I’m sort of speaking to some psychological relational dynamics here that are a little more complex, but that’s some of the elements of control. So, we feel safe when we’re in control.

Justin Donald: Yeah, it’s interesting. I think when my wife and I show up in a great state, none of this exists. When we show up in a stress state or something’s going on, I think my wife’s default is control because that gives her comfort to like know how it’s going to go, right? And then mine is avoidance.

Stefanos Sifandos: But that’s control.

Justin Donald: Okay. So, it’s another form of control.

Stefanos Sifandos: All control, right? So, you avoiding or you shutting down or you going to more work or whatever you do to avoid, that’s a way of controlling, your attempt to control the situation. Maybe she’s more anxious or more insecure or more desperate if you’re needy or more forceful or more loud or whatever, I don’t know, but that’s her way of controlling. It’s all control. The tool of the ego, the personality, where these survival strategies sit that were formed at an early age during our formative years, the number one tool, if you like, is to exercise control. Now, the extremes of that is just, well, you can think about what the extremes are. We see it in our society and they’re illegal, right? And they’re morally not acceptable either.

They’re the extremes of that. But all of this lives on a spectrum, so we’re all searching for control. And relinquishing in the control is one of the hardest journeys, the inward journeys that we can take. And again, I’m not saying relinquish your control and let the world take you and be passive in a punching bag or anything like that. No, no, no, no, no, no. But they come from of why you want that person to be a particular way because, again, like control is very much linked to codependence. Codependence, actually, paradoxically, again, reinforces powerlessness because it’s, I’m only going to be okay if you are okay or if you treat me this way or if you behave that way, or if I have a million dollars in the bank, or if I hit my targets this month, or if I have X amount of employees, or if I’m present in X amount of countries for my business, whatever it may be, right? I’m only going to be okay if then. That’s powerlessness.

Justin Donald: Well, and it’s so crazy hearing you list it out because these are the conditions that we give ourselves, like I’ve seen it in myself, I see it in in my wife, I see it in other friends. But it’s also like we’re ultimately setting ourselves up for failure when the list of conditions grows. So, like everything you listed, it’s like, you kind of said it as an or, but some people it’s like an and. I need a million dollars in the bank and I need this and that and the other thing. It’s like, yeah, how are you going to then succeed in just your mental state, let alone relationships when all these conditions exist, right?

Stefanos Sifandos: Too much pressure, and what we often do with all that pressure is we seek more control. And that’s where the sabotage that you spoke to, we start burning sh*t down. Like that’s what happens when we start burning the family home down. We start burning our businesses down, not being as present there, not showing up, missing things, right, employing the wrong people, making more riskier decisions. We’re trying to get the quick buck instead of the sustainable dollar. You start to see these cracks and slowly, slowly over time, they happen, they cause ruptures. And often, again, we’ll go to, oh, well, that’s market conditions, or the industry’s changing, and that may very well be true. And are you really grounded, prepared, centered for that? Probably not.

Justin Donald: Yeah, that’s good. Let’s kind of go into another direction here. I want to talk about, I often say wealth is so much more than money. A lot of people look at wealth as money. It’s a financial thing. And I think that money is a component of it. Your financial health really matters, but so does your physical, so does your mental, so does your spiritual, so does your intellectual, like we could go on and on. And something that I think it’s not very prominent is emotional regulation and really like that being the ultimate wealth building skill, because if you get that right, you’re going to get so many other things that give so much meaning to life. Like, if you are strong on the emotional regulation side of things, you’re probably going to do really well with relationships, which is probably going to lend really well to business, which is probably going to lend well to all these other areas. So, my question for you, Stef, is what separates emotionally resilient leaders from reactive ones under pressure?

Stefanos Sifandos: Simple truth is those that are more familiar with themselves, with their interior world, they’ve done more inner work. As a result of that, they’re more self-confident, they’re more self-aware. They’re not so triggered by sociative trauma and they’re not so controlled by that, meaning that they could be in a conversation, and maybe that conversation unconsciously or consciously reminds them of, or that person even, right, or what they’re wearing that reminds them of something that happened to them that was really intense and hurtful when they were young, and instead of not being in contact with that, because they’re avoiding that, right? And then all of a sudden, getting this sense of mistrust for that person or causing rupture, they then become a little more reactive or harsh, et cetera.

They’re able to witness and notice that, oh, that old thing’s coming out. That was then, this is now, this isn’t the person, this isn’t the time. This is a totally different situation. Let me actually be with it different, with a different version of myself. Let me be empowered. Let me be my voice. Let me speak my truth. Let me ask really interesting questions. And so, the person that’s more self-regulated generally is more in touch with themselves. They know themselves. They know the challenges they face, and they don’t judge them. They know their addictions or their compulsions. We all have them, Justin. All of us have them.

Again, on a spectrum, like some’s really intense where people are drinking two bottles of Jack Daniels every night and some addictions are not that at all, right? But it doesn’t always have to be addiction and compulsion, there isn’t an immediate and exclusive association to intensity, shooting heroin or whatever it may be, right? So, that person that is more emotionally regulated has greater mastery with themselves, understands how to move through conflict in a better way, again, has tools in seeking to understand other people, can access curiosity and compassion, can be nonjudgmental towards themselves, can therefore be more self-confident, more self-aware, have more thoughtful tools of communication and conversation to have, can really explore challenges, and also is boundaried rather, so they know that if something doesn’t serve them, maybe the way that someone’s talking to them or the way this business deal is going, they know how and when to pull the plug in a more effective way, as opposed to panicking and being scared.

So, there are less time in fear and contraction, less time in a sympathetically charged nervous system. More time in a parasympathetic nervous system where they’re able to assess the situation with greater clarity. Like, slow is smooth, smooth is fast. They’re not reactive.

Justin Donald: Yeah. So, I want to drill down with one last question on this and then I want to pivot here. But, like, on this show, we talk a lot about taking action, taking some form of action today. So, when I hear you speak, it makes me wonder, like, what is something that anyone listening today can start using to strengthen their emotional regulation? Like, what do you think is the first habit that they should implement to really get them on the right track?

Stefanos Sifandos: I’m going to make an assumption here in the habit or the practice I’m going to share, and the assumption is that people are going to listen to it and go, really, that’s it. And I’m going to say, yep, just do that and let me know how you go. So, the practice, I would say, again, keeping in mind this high performing, high charging serial entrepreneur, highly creative, like really dedicated to their craft, but also, just lives life big, loves family as well, loves self, loves having fun, loves toys, loves all the things, right?

Most business people and entrepreneurs are very busy. They’re stacked, right? There’s very little downtime in their lives. I’ll tell you a story. I’ll make it really quick. I won’t give you the sort of poetic long version. I’ll give you the really quick version. God is sitting, thinking, where shall I place all of the secrets of the universe, of the cosmos, thinks, thinks, thinks. Of course, God is all knowing. So, what appears to be thinking really isn’t thinking, right? Ah, I will place the secrets of the cosmos in stillness, in silence, in solitude, because that is where humanity fears to go the most.

We live such busy lives, man. So compressed. We don’t make time to just be still. And you know, the old Bon Jovi song, I’ll Sleep When I’m Dead, but it’s not about that. It’s a different expression of consciousness if you like, right? And so, what I would recommend is if once per week, you can do this on a daily basis, but just once per week, you can disappear into nature where the rhythms of life slow down, right? Moving to the rhythm of wisdom, the rhythm of nature, could be going for a walk in a forest or even just sitting in a forest, could be just sitting at the beach. No phones, no diaries, no books, no writing, nothing. Minimum two hours, if you can do that, and I get it, family, people, et cetera, like it’s not always easy. You may have to do it during a workday or something, I don’t know. But minimum two hours, ideally three, right, don’t do anything. Just be. I would be very impressed if most people can do that with efficacy and without tremendous friction internally, and that’s again, information.

Justin Donald: That’s good.

Stefanos Sifandos: The monkey mind starts going, right? Like, why am I here? What a stupid f*cking exercise. It’s a waste of time. I’m wasting my time. I could be being productive. I could make another $10,000, right?

Justin Donald: Look at all the things I could do, yeah.

Stefanos Sifandos: Great. But isn’t it interesting that there’s so much friction in this one thing? Stay with it. Do it for a month. Do it for three months. Do it for a year. See, feel, observe where it takes you. That’s the starting point. No agenda, no, oh, at the end of three months, you’re going to experience this because, again, entrepreneurs, business people, they’re so tethered to outcomes. The outcome is the intrinsic value of this practice. Do it and observe for yourself what happens.

Justin Donald: That’s powerful and it’s beautiful. Stef, this has been awesome, and what people may not realize is you just basically gave a great overview of your book that just came out. And so, I’d love for you to share the title and where people can find it and where people can learn more about you as well.

Stefanos Sifandos: Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate it, Justin. Always, man. Here’s the book, Tuned In and Turned On, just got released February 3rd with Hay House. So super, super grateful. It was about 130,000 words. They made me cut it down to a lot more. But I’m really happy with it. I’m very grateful for it. You can get this book any major retailer, of course, outlet, but if you go to TunedInandTurnedOnBook.com, you’ll be able to get this book with a stack of bonuses, which are really cool, and there for a limited time only. I’ll have them up for a little bit longer. So, that’s where you can get the book. Of course, you get Audible. I recorded it myself as well. If you don’t mind the Australian accent, you don’t mind my voice, you can get that.

Justin Donald: I think most people love the Australian accent. That I think it’s really working for you.

Stefanos Sifandos: Thank you. Thank you. It was a very interesting project and process, Justin.

Justin Donald: Oh, it is. It’s crazy, yeah.

Stefanos Sifandos: It’s so different, man. Like, I had to stop and take deep breaths every few seconds because of the way I was reading it. It was an interesting challenge and I really enjoyed it.

Justin Donald: Yeah. At the beginning, it’s hard to get into flow state, narrating your own book and how you actually want it to sound, and then over-analyzing, like I just had to get to the point where I’m like, just read the darn thing. I’m making it too much of a big deal. It’s not a big deal, just– and eventually I got into flow and it was fun, but it was not fun in the beginning.

Stefanos Sifandos: Yeah, I totally hear you. And speaking of the audio, I was very blessed that my editor said, well, the first day I was reading the book, because it was about a year before that I’d actually completed, I’m like, oh, no, I need to add this and I have to say this. And so much has changed since then. And so, I just started adding bonus material. So, the audiobook has a stack of bonus material, just as an FYI.

Justin Donald: Love it.

Stefanos Sifandos: Yeah, and so, TunedInandTurnedOnBook.com, and if you want to see more of my work, @stefanossifandos on YouTube, Instagram, et cetera.

Justin Donald: Well, and I just want to give a shout out and an endorsement to you because I know you, we’re friends. I know your wife, Christine. She does incredible work. You guys together as couples do incredible couples’ work. I know you’ve worked a lot with men, specifically, but you guys work with couples as well. She works independently with people. So, you’re both in this space and you both do amazing things.

And I’ve had the pleasure of learning from you. I’ve had the pleasure of recommending people to you. I’ve heard feedback from so many people that you really were able to create some paradigm shifts for them to create just a better quality life for many people. So, I just want to endorse you with my highest praise and endorsement. So, go check out Stef, his stuff, all of his work, certainly his new book. This thing’s hot off the press. We’re excited to have you here. Thank you, Stef.

Stefanos Sifandos: Thank you. Appreciate you so much, my friend. Thank you.

Justin Donald: And I’d like to wrap up our session with one last question to you as the audience. I love asking you a single question as we end each episode. So, my question is this, what is one step you can take today to move towards financial freedom and really just living the life that you truly desire on your terms? Not by default, by design. So, pick something today you can implement from Stef. Hopefully and ideally, maybe it’s just an hour of silence and you build up to two and you build up to three, but pick something and move forward. Thanks so much, and we’ll catch you next week.