Digital Marketing Strategies for Hypergrowth with Patrick Dillon – EP 120

Interview with Patrick Dillon

Digital Marketing Strategies for Hypergrowth with Patrick Dillon

Featured on This Episode: Patrick Dillon

✅ What he does: Patrick Dillon is the Founder & CEO of WISE Digital Partners, a digital marketing agency that develops and deploys online marketing strategies for local and eCommerce businesses based in the U.S. He has founded ten businesses throughout his lifetime and started his first business at age 12. In his past business endeavors, Patrick has attracted major national and global brands as clients, including the NFL, Time Inc., Sports Illustrated, Warner Bros. Records, and NBC Universal. He’s been featured in numerous publications, such as The Wall Street Journal, Fast Company, and Entrepreneur magazine. Patrick is also a member of the Forbes Agency Council (an invitation-only network of executives) and a regular contributor to Forbes.com. He was named the 2022 Entrepreneur of the Year by the CEO Review Magazine.

💬 Words of wisdom: “I think that teaching brings a lot of transparency and comfort to our clients.” – Patrick Dillon

🔎 Where to find Patrick Dillon:  LinkedIn | Instagram | Twitter

Key Takeaways with Patrick Dillon

• Leveraging entrepreneurship to buy back your time.
• Pat’s journey as an entrepreneur and starting 10 different businesses.
• Why hiring the right team is the most effective scaling strategy.
• The problem with VC funded businesses.
• Economic timing and its impact on the success of your company.
• The unique tactic that got Pat’s company out of bankruptcy while landing Sports Illustrated as a client.
• The importance of staying humble amidst failure.
• The downside to niching down and how Pat built million-dollar verticals across 10 different industries.
• Why transparency is key to building lasting relationships with clients.
• Two dead-easy tips that will instantly get you ahead of the competition.

Patrick Dillon on The Downside of Niching Down

Patrick Dillon Tweetables

Resources

• WISE Digital Partners
• Follow Patrick Dillon on LinkedIn | Instagram | Twitter
• Follow WISE Digital Partners on YouTube | Facebook
• NEST
• Lightpost Digital
• Kasim Aslam
• SI Kids

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Read the Full Transcript with Patrick Dillon

Justin Donald: What’s up, Pat? So glad to have you on the show.

Patrick Dillon: Sup, buddy. How are you?

Justin Donald: I’m just loving the fact that we’re going to have you on and get to share your story. It’s really one of my favorite things just to have my dear friends, people I’ve been friends with for years and years and years, decades in your case, just on to share their story and all the cool stuff that they’re up to in life. So, yeah, I’m really excited to have you here, buddy.

Patrick Dillon: Absolutely. Fired up here too.

Justin Donald: So, yeah, it’s interesting because part of why I want to have you on the show, number one, is because you’ve done a great job with your entrepreneurial life, several different ventures there, which is fun. And I know that we feature a lot of successful entrepreneurs on the show. But what I really love about you and what I think separates you from the rest of the pack is that you live a great life. You do the things you love, you travel the globe, you have epic experiences. And so, I want to kind of get into some of this. You know, I think there are very few people. There may be no one outside of my wife that has traveled to more countries with me than you have. So, we’ve got this long, rich history of being all over the globe, probably 20 different countries, maybe even closer to 30, for sure 20 that we’ve been able to kind of globe trot together and experience life. We’ve done it back in the days where we are a little more thrifty and didn’t spend as much and found a way to get a deal. Stayed in some hostels. Cool hostels, though. And then we’ve done it where we’ve had money and we’ve spent and it’s been a little more extravagant with three-Michelin-star restaurant type of experiences and just kind of the full gamut. So, yeah.

Patrick Dillon: Back to the old days, the hostels were the most fun.

Justin Donald: Totally. I mean, I remember that one that we were at. Well, I mean, there are so many great stories. I don’t even know if we should go into all those right now. I just remember a really fun experience with one of the places that we stayed. I believe it was in Barcelona. And our good friend, Jimmy, who didn’t make friends very well with the person running the place and got shooed out with a broom.

Patrick Dillon: That was actually Adam but whatever.

Justin Donald: Oh, okay. That’s pretty funny. So, yeah, I’d love to just hear, like, where did you get this desire to travel and explore the globe?

Patrick Dillon: Yeah. Obviously, you know a lot of the story on travel is, you know, I had great parents who really enjoyed travel and really wanted my brother, Rob, and I to experience travel. And we took like a big international trip every single year growing up. And then as a kid, we had, I think, four sets of exchange students from different parts of the globe. A couple from Barcelona, Madrid, and different areas of Spain. And so, having them come visit and learn about their culture and then we were invited to go there and stay summers there. And that’s been a back-and-forth thing every single year. Nuri and Jordi say hi. I think Hillary and I are going to go there this summer as well. And that kind of put me on the path for getting out and exploring more. And I think I’ve backed around Europe three times, backed around Thailand twice, been everywhere you could imagine going in Mexico. With you, I mean, it’s been so many places in the U.S. and Canada and Caribbean and Mexico and Europe as well. And there’s a few friends out there like that where we just travel so well together because it’s very difficult to upset us. Things roll off our back pretty quickly. I wish I could do more of it. I think with COVID and the pandemic and starting this new business, it’s been a lot less travel than I would like. And that’s going to change this year, I think.

Justin Donald: It’s awesome. You know, I also appreciate the benefit that I got, the extension of the exchange student. So, you had this really cool experience where you invited exchange students into your home. They lived with you, they did high school with you, and then you went over there, lived with them, did life with them. And so, by extension, since we’ve done a bunch of trips, I got a chance to meet them while they were here in town. We got a chance to go hang out with them when we were in Spain I think on a couple of different occasions. I think one of them was a professional athlete and took us around, introduced us to other people on the team, and just we got like a real live tour from people that lived there every single day like it was their world. And I feel like there’s no better way to tour a city, a country, multiple locations than from locals that have like meaning tied to like they have experiences. They have this love and joy of the things that they’re showing us because of the impact and the influence it had on them.

Patrick Dillon: Yeah. In fact, the last time I was over there, I spent six weeks in Europe like four years ago, over the summer with Jordi’s 40th birthday. There was seven Olympians at that 40th birthday party, including his wife.

Justin Donald: That’s unbelievable.

Patrick Dillon: So, it’s a neat group of people.

Justin Donald: Yeah, no kidding. Just athletic as they come. Yeah. And so, I could see how travel could become very appealing when that’s kind of the framework that you grew up with that you started at a young age. You knew people well across the globe. You had this pen pal type of relationship that went beyond just paper and pen. Yeah, just such a unique experience. And from there, you really also found this love, not just of travel, but of people, relationships, even I feel like that kind of rooted down and you learn to appreciate entrepreneurship and started in your own entrepreneurial ventures. And I’m curious where that came from because from your parents’ standpoint, I don’t… Like from either of our parents, neither of us had entrepreneurial parents, right?

Patrick Dillon: Well, I mean, my dad owned an accounting firm and he was an accountant when I was growing up for a combination accounting and legal firm and then my mom owned a graphic design business. And so, I had the numbers side of the brain and the artistic side of the brain and sort of got that yin and yang from them. But dad moved on to start his own accounting firm at the time I was graduating high school. So, for the last 15 or so years of his career, he owned a big firm. And I think it was definitely a formative time in my life when I was approaching the end of high school and going to college that I saw a lot of that. But I knew from go that I wanted to have my own business because I wanted to have flexibility and freedom to do more of the travel and that type of thing. I’m happy that I ended up in a business which I’ve started ten businesses, but the business that I have today is what I want to do, I think, for the rest of my career because my job is to evangelize what great work we do and talk to business owners. I couldn’t imagine like today I have 11 meetings today. I’ll be talking to four new business owners about helping grow their business. You know, it’s such fun conversations. I really enjoy it.

Justin Donald: Well, let’s talk about some of your early businesses. You know, one of the things that I really enjoyed with an interview that I had with my friend, Kasim Aslam. He talked a lot about this power of niche market, like find the niche market, find these businesses, become the authority in the space. There’s huge opportunity and he has kind of owned the Montessori space. He’s done a lot in the world of, you know, he sold his Google ads agency and really has done some cool things. And so, I think of like some of your businesses is very niche market businesses. I’d love for you to share some of these. One of them I remember one of your first ones being that janitorial business that you were able to scale by implementing the right SEO, finding the right operator that could actually be boots on the ground so you didn’t have to. Yeah, let’s talk about that.

Patrick Dillon: Yeah. You know, it’s the arc of what I’ve done is it’s just a very weird path. But, you know, it started out with the crowdsourcing fashion company, which I started with a friend of ours, Jimmy, in 2006. You know, that was a really fun business. I liked it. There was a lot to learn. We were getting into retail where we’re selling online. We were creating online. We were recruiting designers around the world. We had 10,000 designers onboard and then the platform in 18 months. But no one could predict or in a lot of cases handle the crash of 2007. And that changed everything for us. And big brands weren’t spending money. You know, retailers didn’t want to onboard or take a risk on a new fashion brand. And so, that business actually became a software company that had a couple of breakout products. The one that really broke out was it was called Deal Current Network. We were the first company to private label Groupon. And so, we ended up providing a competitive tool kit, a software platform to media companies to help them compete with Groupon and other businesses like it in their local markets, which got us into advertising, and we ended up having 44,000 small business advertisers on that platform. What we figured out was they really needed help with more sustainable marketing models.

So, their website, SEO, Facebook, which was just coming out on the scene at the time for local businesses, Google, all that stuff. And so, we created a digital marketing agency which was called Lightpost Digital about eight or nine years ago. I started seeing the success that we were bringing our clients and how fast their businesses were growing because we were ahead of the curve with a lot of those businesses, getting them online, establishing them well with Google and social media and directories, and all these other places. I think at the time, like with the janitorial business, I think I got jealous. I was jealous at how fast we were growing their businesses and I felt like I was maybe a little bit bored because business was moving really well. We had been doing that for a couple of different years and I started doing some research with a student actually into what industries are B2B, serve the local market, are disruptable online, and have nice recurring revenue with healthy margins, and janitorial business is a lot of those things. Now, the margins are a little more squeezed today. COVID created some unusually strong effects on the janitorial businesses. A lot of less people today go into offices, so there’s less opportunity out there and all that stuff.

But, yeah, I’ve got two janitorial companies now. They run. They run decently. I’ve got a general manager that manages them and it’s been interesting to sort of play both sides, the client and the agency because WISE Digital runs the marketing for those businesses and pays normal fees to WISE Digital and stuff, and that’s been fun. But I think the most fun I’ve had to date in any of these businesses is WISE Digital. It’s essentially our third agency because we built a big one. We merged it with another company, sold it, got rid of all of our investors, including RBC Capital and all that, and I didn’t like the merger that it went into. So, in early 2019, I started WISE Digital. I brought back all the most talented people I’ve had in all my businesses. So, I think I approached six or eight different people individually one at a time over the first two years, and every single one of them came back and now runs a department. So, we’ve got just six wonderful managers who are the smartest people I’ve ever worked with in that particular role and discipline.

Justin Donald: That’s awesome. Yeah, it’s really cool that you could kind of cherry-pick who the best people you’ve worked with over the years are. And by the way, I get it. I get what happens when you have VC money and you’re on the VC treadmill and there are demands. It went from being your business, you call the shots to it’s not necessarily just your business. In many cases, you may not even have majority ownership or majority control and you’re answering to them. It’s a different game. And I always tell people, “Hey, VCs are great for the right situation, but they’re not right for every situation.”

Patrick Dillon: What was different here was we became a software company and they invested in the software company, but then we pivoted and moved into more of a service model as a division of that company. And then that model grew faster than the software side. So, the VCs ended up in a business that they were, you know, majority shareholders in that they didn’t really understand anymore. This business was more attractive, a lot bigger potential, and I wanted to do things with it that they just didn’t understand or maybe have the wherewithal to sit through how long it was going to take to get to where we wanted to go.

Justin Donald: Yeah, that makes sense. Now, for a short iteration, prior to moving into the agency model, you really found a niche in like, artists, because I remember you had Artistic Hub for a little bit, right?

Patrick Dillon: Yeah. So, that was the fashion business. And before Deal Current, there was Artistic Hub and what that was, we had built a very successful website for attracting artists and getting them to download design templates, go and create something like a T-shirt design, upload it, and then bring their friends to the website to vote on it. So, they would go and do all the work and then create all our traffic, and then we would produce the results. And it was really interesting. You know, I always think back like, “What if the 2007 crash didn’t happen or didn’t happen right then and we had maybe one more year?” Because I went out and figured out how to get us into retail, I got us into, I think, 28 different retail stores in six U.S. markets, everywhere from L.A. to New York to Miami. And that was a fun and interesting business but when the crash happened and like I think within a matter of six months, a third of our retailers went out of business. Another third said they didn’t want to do wholesale anymore. They wanted to do consignment. And the revenue model was flipped upside down.

Justin Donald: Yeah. And it is interesting to think about the importance of timing. And by the way, sometimes it’s pure luck or it’s just that you’re unlucky with timing where the idea could be a brilliant idea. It could work in almost any economic season except for maybe one. And that stretch of 2007 on, 2008, and even for a number of years, a lot of things shifted like the world as we knew it shifted. The demand that existed for certain things shifted just as we’ve seen during COVID. That’s another place where a lot of demand shifted, a lot of new businesses emerged. But at the same time, a lot of existing businesses really struggled because what worked just all of a sudden didn’t work. And that’s the interesting aspect of economic timing, right?

Patrick Dillon: Yeah. What was interesting like incredibly bad timing led to really good timing. So, Jimmy, who was my business partner at the time, we were sitting down. It seemed like on a weekly basis we’re sitting down and talking about, “Do we shut down the business? Do we tell all of our investors we lost their money? This isn’t working. What are we going to do?” And we had like four or five breakfasts like that before he would go off to his other job trying to figure out what we’re going to do. And all of a sudden, we got an email one day from a PR company that was looking to buy the software that we had built to build Collar Free, the fashion company. And they said, “You know, we want to buy this for one of our clients,” and I said, “Who’s the client?” And the, of course, we had to go through all the NDA process and stuff and then we finally figured out the client was Sports Illustrated. And so, Jimmy was very smart to think, “Hey, it’s not available for sale anymore. It’s available for licensing.” And that became our first licensed client with a platform that we built to help drive traffic for SIKids.com and then eventually more the Time properties. And so, bad luck can change and turn into something good if you just have the grit to stick through it.

Justin Donald: Yeah. And it depends on the lens you’re looking at it. If you’re just trying to find all the reasons why it failed, you failed, the idea didn’t work, you’ll find all those reasons. But if you take the same amount of time and say, “Hey, what is the silver lining in this?” Because as painful as failure can be, really, it’s through that failure where I think we learn the most, we grow the most, the most potential and opportunities there because we’re the most willing to like put ego aside and make different moves, make different decisions, talk to different people, like get outside the box and think a little differently. Right?

Patrick Dillon: Yeah. And I think there’s… We know an individual. We know probably many individuals where the blocker for them is their ego. They can’t set that aside. They can’t admit failure. They can’t admit that they screwed up. I’m probably the first person in the agency that I screwed up because no one’s going to be on my butt about screwed up. You know, they’re just, “Hey, this was a hypothesis. It didn’t work. Let’s try this instead.”

Justin Donald: Yeah. So, talk to me about WISE Digital. So, you’ve got this company. And by the way, I’ve used your services but I’d love for people to understand what it is that you do and why you’re, well, first of all, your business has grown leaps and bounds. You are consistently growing every month and it’s not by accident. It’s really by design and by the value that you offer. But I’d love to hear just some of what you do, why you’re growing or even the clip that you’re growing at, and the various awards you’ve won. You guys have won a ton of awards.

Patrick Dillon: Yeah. So, I’m lucky. This is my you could say third agency. It’s the first agency I had owned where I’m the owner. I don’t have any investors. I don’t have any majority partners. So, I can do what’s right for our clients and our employees and more broadly, our partners as well. We have a lot of partners which are helping fuel a lot of the growth. So, the thing I learned in the first agency, Lightpost Digital, was we weren’t offering enough products or services. We were offering a very small collection of products and services. And then you start growing 10%, 20% of your clients by leaps and bounds because they’re the ones that are set up for that kind of influx of business. And they start asking you for more and more services and then you try and add on other stuff later and it’s like, well, you’re just saying yes so that you don’t lose their other business. And I think that was the tough area that Lightpost was in. Also, we had a partner who didn’t agree with me all the time, and also we had investors that were fighting a lot of it. And I think when I went through the merger, I figured out a lot of this stuff that we were remarkably bad at that that business was really good at and then we were good in the stuff they weren’t good at.

And so, I think when we combined forces, I learned a lot about just how are we going to be like an A-player across all these different disciplines. Because what I’ve come to realize in digital is that this is a really complicated ecosystem today. You know, five years ago, ten years ago, for sure, you could launch a website, do a little SEO work, and all of a sudden the phone started ringing. Well, today it’s more challenging. You know, there’s a lot more businesses in every single category that have gotten wise to how this stuff works. They’re dabbling with listings and reviews and the SEO and the PPC and all that stuff, and it’s just made it more challenging. In fact, I launched another janitorial company just two years ago, and the difference between launching that company two years ago and the other one four or five years ago, it’s a very different ballgame in the exact same like-sized market. And so, it takes a lot of really talented people. It takes a huge payroll. We’re running a million-and-a-half-dollar payroll right now, and it just keeps growing and growing. You know, one thing when you talk about niches and going after a niche and owning a niche, I’ve done that with various businesses but with WISE Digital, I chose not to do that.

I think the conventional wisdom for agency owners by former agency owners is that you got a niche yourself. You got to work with just Montessori schools or just janitorial companies or whatever but there’s a lot of things I don’t like about that. One, you’re not protected against economic cycles, right? Because what if you chose just to work with mortgage companies like our number one vertical for the first two years of COVID was mortgage companies. And we kept winning awards. We were ranked so highly on Google for eight or ten different terms related to mortgage marketing and mortgage marketing agencies and nationwide focus and all this stuff that they just kept coming to us. But once interest rates turned, that business flipped upside down and those businesses are 70% or 80% down over last year. So, the foresight that we had was we know this was coming. So, we just started doubling down on our accounting clients and our legal clients and our e-commerce clients and those types of businesses. And so, now we serve like 30 or 40 different industries. We have clients in three different countries. Our largest client is in Australia trying to move into the U.S. We’ve got employees in four countries and nine states. It turned global really quickly.

And so, my plan for the business is I’d like to, even though we’re in 30 or 40 industries, there’s a lot of those types of businesses that just come to us and find us because of the award-winning work and the breadth of services and the affordability of our business versus a competitor who is at our same level quality wise, but much, much bigger so they’re twice the price, is really to focus on how can we dominate ten industries, how can we to find million dollar verticals across ten different industries. You know, like when COVID hit, even though we had about 15% of our clients that were in businesses that had to completely shut down with COVID, the other 85% of our business either maintained or grew because of COVID, which allowed my team and my employees not have to worry one day about their job or their paycheck. It allowed us to go back to about 15 of our clients and say, “Hey, we know you’re in trouble. If you haven’t gotten any kind of government funding yet, we have. We’re going to take care of your marketing and your fees until you get that money.” And so, we were able to do things like that because we weren’t so focused on one industry. We didn’t have all our eggs in one basket.

Justin Donald: It’s interesting because you brought up a point earlier that I think we should dive into, which is now you can do what’s right for your partners, meaning before you were a little hamstrung on what you could and couldn’t do, right? I mean, one of the things when we really started dissecting and you and I took a deep dive on this based on kind of that model, some other businesses that were out there, some of the, you know, let’s say, less than stellar practices in the industry that exist where, yeah, there are definitely companies, agencies doing a disservice to their clients or clients don’t know. These people have no clue. And they say they do things that they don’t really do. And then on top of that, they can’t even do the things that often they need to be able to do, right?

Patrick Dillon: Yeah. We offer 12 services, six products, some of those proprietary. We have our own website platform, which I think gives our agency a huge advantage. NEST is an all-encompassing website platform, ADA compliance review platform, backend solution, reporting solution, and we can do some things that other agencies can’t do because they’re all competing on the same products and services. But an agency to do what we do, we probably are subscribed to 40 to 60 different software platforms at a pretty exorbitant cost to the agency annually. And there’s a lot of the services that we offer that can’t be actually administered without a couple of different software platforms. And there’s a lot of agencies out there, I think, that are just, I say it sometimes, I think 95% of the digital marketing space is idiots or crooks. And I’ve come across all of them. It’s challenging because there’s very little transparency in the space. It’s not like we’re doctors or lawyers or accountants where you’re getting degrees and licenses to do this stuff. Any Tom, Dick, or Harry can come out and say they do SEO and there’s no governing body for it. And for the most part, business owners, it’s like the wizard behind a curtain. They have no idea what’s happening back there.

And I think coming as a non-technologist into this space, one thing that I’ve learned to do is figure out how it works and then go and explain how it works. And so, I think what I’ve always done well with clients is, “Hey, let me show you how this stuff works so that it’s not all hocus pocus to you.” And I think that teaching brings a lot of transparency and comfort to our clients. So, we’ve gone and produced a lot of that stuff on our YouTube channel, on our blog, and all these other areas too where, “Hey, let’s teach you how this stuff works,” because once you actually learn and appreciate how difficult the stuff is, our belief is no client would ever try and do it themselves. Why would they?

Justin Donald: Yeah. What’s some simple low-hanging fruit that any entrepreneur should be considering doing? Like some of it, yeah, they could probably do themselves. A lot of it they can’t. But what’s just like a quick laundry list of things that any entrepreneur should have done at some point, probably sooner than later if they haven’t already?

Patrick Dillon: Yeah. And this is stuff that we tell business owners and clients that they need to do regardless if they work with us or not, and realistically, you need to do it while you’re working with us. One is reviews, like if you have a business, especially if it’s a local business serving some local market and we define local businesses as they serve local markets, but they could be in 30 or 40 different locations. Reviews account for about 24% of the Google algorithm. So, if you have a great business with a great website and great SEO and all your directories are in order, if you don’t have reviews and you’re not focused on getting reviews, you’re going to fall behind your competition. And there’s a lot of professional service industries like law firms and wealth planning firms that say, “Oh, well, I can’t get reviews. There’s too much red tape.” No, there isn’t. That’s not how Google works and Google’s a bigger audience for you than your prospective customers. So, you just need to get with it.

The other thing is, is directory listings is making sure your business information, NAP data, name, address, phone number, descriptions, all that rich data is consistent and accurate across a lot of different directories. Like, for the local clients that we serve, we manage 44 different local directories, Bing. Yahoo! Chamber of Commerce, Google. Facebook, AOL, all those places. That accounts for 51% of a local search algorithm. So, just doing those two things, you’re ahead of most of your competition.

Justin Donald: Yeah, that’s great. And by the way, that’s like the super low-hanging fruit. There’s a ton of other low-hanging fruit that you would probably need to engage in agency to be able to do because most people are not savvy enough to do it themselves. And even if they are, it’s probably not the best use of their time anyway. These entrepreneurs should be spending their time on their business, not in their business.

Patrick Dillon: I think too is it’s like I’ve talked to 10,000 business owners, especially local business owners over the last ten years. Get a brand standards document together. It takes a designer an hour or two to put this together. It defines your colors, your fonts, your textures, your finishes, your logo lockups, so that when you do go and get published in magazine or need business cards made or need to go to a design firm to get a better website built, you’ve already got those decisions made.

Justin Donald: Yeah. I think that’s incredible advice. I mean, all this is just great. There’s gold here and I think that there’s low-hanging fruit for all entrepreneurs. So, be considering this for the new ventures that you are starting but for anything that’s in existence, these are things that are so important, I mean, for us just updating our Google information has had a big effect on even just our real estate, right, getting people in the door in the real estate. So, yeah, tons of cool stuff. I mean, we could talk for hours on this. You and I do. We talk for hours about all the cool hacks that exist. And for me, I love to outsource, so I like to do as little myself and put as much into the hand of experts as humanly possible. So, for those that are interested to learn more about you and about WISE Digital, where can they find you?

Patrick Dillon: Yeah. I mean, right now you can still book me directly off the websites. So, if you just go to WISEDigitalPartners.com and you can click Contact in the top right. You can actually just book a meeting with me. It’s starting to happen about ten times a week. So, I think I’m going to have to make a change there this year. But you can also email me, patrick@wisedigitalpartners.com. That’s a great way to get started.

Justin Donald: Love it. Well, I appreciate your time. You know, Pat, this is always fun. Always great to connect. I love wrapping up each session that I do by asking my listeners a simple question and that question is this: What’s the one step you can take today to move towards financial freedom and living the life that you truly desire, a life that’s on your terms, not someone else’s, and a life that is not by default but rather by design? Thanks. And we’ll catch you next week.

Patrick Dillon: Thank you, buddy.