The Invisible Riptide That Pulls Entrepreneurial Dads Away From Their Family with Jeff Zaugg – EP 293

June 4, 2026

Interview with Jeff Zaugg

The Invisible Riptide That Pulls Entrepreneurial Dads Away From Their Family with Jeff Zaugg

Running a successful business doesn’t automatically translate into success at home. In fact, many ambitious entrepreneurs and high performers slowly drift away from the people they care about most without even realizing it. And by the time they realize their ambition has come at the expense of their family, the resentment that’s been building can take years to heal.​

That’s why I’m excited to introduce you to my friend Jeff Zaugg. Jeff is the founder of DadAwesome and host of the DadAwesome podcast, and has spent the last eight years helping fathers become more intentional leaders at home while raising four daughters of his own.​

Through conversations, live events, and his new book DadAwesome, Jeff has become a powerful voice for dads who want to build deeper relationships, stronger families, and a meaningful legacy that extends far beyond financial success.​

In this conversation, Jeff and I unpack the hidden “riptides” that pull high-performing fathers away from connection, presence, and intentional living. We discuss why so many driven men default to prioritizing business over relationships, how to create family values that last for generations, and the practical habits that help ambitious parents stay emotionally connected while still pursuing big goals.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

✅ How Justin’s wake-up call after coming home late and seeing his wife crying on the porch revealed the hidden cost of always saying yes to more business events and opportunities.

✅ How Jeff’s framework of “Loved, Learner, Leader” can help shape your family culture and legacy for generations.

✅ Jeff’s simple system to create intentional conversations that can help you become more emotionally present as a husband and father.

Featured on This Episode: Jeff Zaugg

✅ What he does: Jeff Zaugg is the founder of DadAwesome, a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping fathers become more intentional leaders in their homes and communities. He is also the host of the DadAwesome podcast and the author of DadAwesome, where he shares practical strategies and conversations designed to help dads build stronger marriages, deeper family connections, and a lasting legacy that extends far beyond financial success.

💬 Words of wisdom:  “The whole journey of these eight and a half years of DadAwesome has been, what can I discover and how can I bring that home to my family? And I just love getting to share it with other dads.” – Jeff Zaugg

🔎 Where to find Jeff Zaugg: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram

Key Takeaways with Jeff Zaugg

  • Why Legacy Matters More Than Wealth
  • The Five-Generation Exercise That Changed Jeff’s Parenting
  • Why High Performers Think Short-Term Relationally
  • Creating a Legacy Through Identity, Values, and Vision
  • The “Invisible Riptide” Pulling Fathers Away From Their Families
  • 20:14 The Wake-Up Call That Changed Justin’s Perspective
  • Why Entrepreneurs Prioritize Business Over Relationships
  • Practical Systems for Becoming a More Intentional Father
  • Why Apologizing Is a Superpower in Parenting
  • How to Connect With Jeff and DadAwesome

Why Entrepreneurial Dads Drift From What Matters Most

Inspiring Quotes

  • “We will not drift towards deep connection. We will not drift towards the legacy that we’re proud of.  The riptide will pull us in a direction of short-term thinking, disconnection, and relationships that are just getting by.” – Jeff Zaugg
  • “Wake-up calls are gifts. I try to be thankful when I have those aha moments because I don’t wanna just go with the flow.” – Jeff Zaugg
  • “How am I being so edgy and defensive and crabby with those who I love most?” – Jeff Zaugg
  • “Humility is a superpower of a dad.  The reason it’s a superpower is it brings me closer to their heart, the connection with the child that I may have spoken harshly to.” – Jeff Zaugg
  • “I want to get to the rocking chair with love on my heart  and the apology is the way. Saying I’m sorry, mending, and repairing to those I love most. ” – Jeff Zaugg

Resources

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  • Tax Strategy Masterclass
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    lifestyleinvestor.com/tax

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Read the Full Transcript with Jeff Zaugg

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Justin Donald: What's up, Jeff? Welcome to the show.

Jeff Zaugg: Thank you so much, Justin. I've been looking forward to it for a couple of months since we first met. Looking forward to this conversation.

Justin Donald: Well, me too. And it was really fun getting connected, and I had a chance to check out your hometown in St. Augustine and really enjoyed it. Such a cool city, town, whatever you want to call it. Super unique and what a cool place to live.

Jeff Zaugg: We moved here two and a half years ago, just a little south of St. Augustine's, Flagler Beach. This was after touring the country for two and a half years in an RV. So, we found and discovered, and we were like, "This is it. We found our new home.” So, we're really grateful.

Justin Donald: Well, I love what you're doing with DadAwesome. As you know, I'm a huge proponent, early-day founding member, and lifetime member of Front Row Dads. And I've recently introduced you and Jon Vroman, who's one of my closest friends.

Jeff Zaugg: Thank you.

Justin Donald: And I'm excited. Yeah. I feel like there's just so much synergy that can happen with you guys connecting. But I'm also just excited to dig into your story. You're an entrepreneur, you've built something really cool, you're really intentional about how you spend your time and how you show up. And the data shows that we have an active audience that has kids and generally are around our age, within kind of like 10 years on either side. And so, I just think there may be no single more important thing that we do than show up the way that we need to as leaders for our kids.

Jeff Zaugg: I wholeheartedly agree. I mean, I don't know the data side, but I do know that as I've gathered dads around campfires, in breweries, in horse pastures next to hockey rinks, like I've gathered dads all around the country, and it's an area we all want to grow, and none of us feel like we've arrived. So, yeah, these conversations are a blast, and they're needed.

Justin Donald: Well, and I'm excited because I talk a lot about kind of like legacy and what you're leaving for your family. What are you building today? What are you leaving behind? And for me, it's, I mean, though I do give strategies on the financial side of things, things that I'm doing myself, they always pale in comparison to the values, the skills, the attitude, just the way that we can kind of coach and train up our kids. Like, those things are so much more important. You give your kids a ton of money, but they don't have the values, and they don't have the discipline to be a good steward of that wealth, it can be a train wreck for them, right? So, it has to be packaged with the skills and the knowledge and the wisdom and the values and all the things that are way more important than money.

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah. Like, my level of agreeing is so strong, and I've just been on this mission of discovery of like, what can I learn because I need it? I have four young daughters so I'm like the whole journey of these eight and a half years of DadAwesome has been, what can I discover? How can I bring that home to my family? And then I just love getting to share it with other dads. So, yeah, I fully agree.

Justin Donald: Well, you talk a lot about moving from survival mode to story mode and helping fathers realize that they're not just managing daily chaos, but they're actually shaping the culture and the identity and the trajectory of future generations. So, I want to dig into that a little bit. So, you mapped out five generations and realize that your family could impact 600 descendants in 120 years. I have to imagine that radically changed or shifted the way you were thinking about parenting. And I'd love to hear, like today, like how did that impact you?

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, that exercise, that was common hundreds of years ago that people just knew, dads knew, grandpas knew that there's a long game at play. But I actually used a spreadsheet, and I put my four daughters in there, and their ages, and I had a calibration where I could how many years until maybe they'll get married in their mid-twenties, somewhere in there, and then maybe their older twenties start having kids. And I could calibrate how many, well, all of them getting married, but how many kids will they have? And that's where I just easy math, the calibration. I have four kids that they each have four kids, that they each have four kids.

Again, probably not going to be an easy math, but what it did is it just helped me realize, “Man, there's great, great, great grandkids that I'll never meet, but decisions that I make today and how I pour into my girls and how I come back to them when I mess up, and I apologize.” How I, when I get defensive or sharp or crabby and I come back around before bedtime and I say, “Hey, that's not who I am, and that's not who I want to be as your dad.” Like, really, I'm modeling for them what I pray will be true about their future husbands, that they'll have that softness, a courage and a strength, but also a tenderness. The exercise of the spreadsheet for me is just a look-up to the bigger view, realize we're playing a long game, and it's so tempting to grade myself in the short term.

And all of us parents, we grade ourselves, and I give myself really low marks as a dad. The organization's called DadAwesome. I'll think DadAverage, maybe, DadAwful, DadAngry. I was DadAngry today. It's just all the DA we play on that. But yeah, the heartbeat is let's have a bigger picture in mind. And one other tactic, by just looking back the past couple of months through the photos on my phone. Immediate calibration to seeing the bigger arc of the story that my family has been a part of. Just taking two, three minutes to thumb through photos. It's amazing how my brain tells myself a much more negative picture than the last two months of photos on my phone.

Justin Donald: Yeah, I like that. I like that for a lot of us, I would say for many people that kind of have that Type A, alpha type of personality, we can be hard on ourselves. So, I think it's good to have perspective and make sure that we're just not always hard on ourselves. I think you strip a lot of joy away from life when we show up that way. But it's tough because for a lot of us, like that's why we've been successful, is that we just didn't go easy on ourselves, and nothing seemed to be good enough until we actually hit whatever pinnacle achievement we wanted to hit, and then we realized like, what were we doing all this for? And we were sacrificing even time with family in a way that actually doesn't line up with the values that maybe we have. It's fascinating.

And so, like when I think of entrepreneurs, most of them are great at thinking. Let me kind of break it into a few categories.

Jeff Zaugg: Sure.

Justin Donald: Most entrepreneurs, most highly compensated W-2s, like people have done well, have moved up, they think super long-term about their business or about the company they work with and their role. They may think long-term about money and investing. Okay. A lot of them don't, but there's still a lot that do. And then I think most of them think short-term relationally, and let whatever else trump the relationships, even in their primary, immediate family. And I'm just curious why you think that happens. And by the way, I'm guilty of that at certain seasons of life. So, this is not a judgment. This is me recognizing I've been there, I've lived it. You maybe have, too. I just want to help rescue people from it.

Jeff Zaugg: Yep. The classic, "Show me your friends, and I'll show you your future,” it's like the people I meet and the books I read. Isn't that Zig Ziglar's quote? It's the people I meet…

Justin Donald: I think it is.

Jeff Zaugg: That's the person I'm becoming. So, it's not the business plan or the current portfolio or the current trajectory of my career. These do not lead to the person I'm becoming. Okay. The things that we look long term, it's crazy, the relationships. So, I am such a champion, a cheerleader of work to build friendships, for me, the kind of men that I want to be more like. So, if I'm finding myself surrounded by men who don't value fatherhood, right, that don't treasure their wife and are building to their marriage, I mean, we just chatted about this, Justin. You're spending money every year to grow and develop and step up your marriage, every year. Like, that is an example of principle. I want to spend more time with you because I can't actually say that's true that every year I've spent money on a conference or a curriculum or a coaching.

So, that's developing your circle of friends that are going after the things that you pray would be true about yourself. It's so true that we look shortsighted in that area of relationships. I do it with my kids, my wife, and my friends, and even mentors. Like, sometimes the mentor relationships, instead of thinking long game, the long time horizon, I'll think, "Who did I meet with this week? Oh, I didn't have anyone pouring to me. Oh no. Oh no.” Like, I'll start to like criticize myself of my lack of strategic connectedness. And so, why is it true? Great question. It is true. So, I'm claiming that it is. I know that it's important to calibrate, but maybe it's… Here's a hypothesis, is I think in the friendship category, the parenting category, and the marriage category, it's all these soft skills that are hard to define a dashboard of success.

In these other categories of, did I finish a half Ironman last year, did the income go from here to here, did the goal setting, it's just easier to define success. So, that makes it a challenge, but that also makes it, it's worth the work to try to define what are success metrics in those relational areas, because that'll help us have a longer time horizon.

Justin Donald: That's right. And by the way, we do have a very strong female audience. And so, if you're listening to this, listen from the lens of what women can help you become better women. But I'll also say from the standpoint of like relationships, women are way better at this than men. Like, women, as a general rule, like they are going to prioritize those relationships. My wife, she still stays in touch with her elementary and high school friends. Like, they still have regular meetups, her college friends, like, it's incredible. And it's because she's valued and prioritized those relationships. And so, I think there's a lot as men that we can learn from the significant women and spouses and just strong females in our lives that are highly relational that get this right.

Jeff Zaugg: That's so good. It's so true. It's true in my family, for sure.

Justin Donald: So, I opened the episode really talking about the power of legacy but really reimagining what that looks like. And so, I do want to talk with you about what the difference in your mind is between leaving money behind for your kids. I've got one daughter. You've got four daughters. And then the difference between leaving identity and values and vision and culture, and just alignment to core philosophies and principles of like what your family is about or what my family is about?

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah. We've landed on as a family, just three simple words that if this is true about my marriage, about my girls, this will carry forward. And there's a multiplication effect to planting seeds or depositing just like money with parenting. And the three words are loved, learner, leader. So, I am loved is an identity piece of I know I'm loved like I've received love. I am loved. I don't have to wonder if I am loved. I am loved. And my girls, to hear that repeated over and over from my wife, Michelle and I, of like the unconditional love, not the earning towards love. The learner is a mindset. It's a posture. I know this is something that we've really shared, Justin, is like this humble curiosity, “I'm going to be a learner.”

And then the third one is leader. The rooms I walk into, the rooms my wife, my four girls walk into, we change the atmosphere of those rooms. We get to carry something into those rooms that wasn't there before we got there. We lead. We problem-solve. We don't blame others. We take ownership. These are just three simple words that I pray will be true in my legacy, is that these are three things that were true about me that are carried forward beyond the great, great, great, great grandkids, right, that'll never meet me. And the thing that kind of envelops the whole three Ls, the love, learner, and leader is I use the phrase, it's wonder. Wonder is a posture of possibility. Wonder is I get to be a dad, but not I have to be a dad. Wonder is just a, like, there's a sparkly eyes that come through when I carry wonder.

And I get this wrong all the time, but this is, again, this is bullseye like is living these three Ls out and bringing wonder to my family, that carries beyond me in ways I'll never know, and that is the legacy that I am shooting for. And is it, can I calculate and say that this year, 2026, that I've put the right things in play well? The one-on-ones with my daughters, my dad-daughter dates, the dates with my wife, the calibrating our yearly plan that we've talked about before, like these are things that lead to that direction. Leadership is service. Leadership is not telling people what to do. It's showing up and serving. So, how am I serving, how my girls seeing Dad serve others, host others? These are factors that tie in with legacy that hopefully are helpful for your audience.

Justin Donald: I love it. Well, and I even think about when you talk about summing it up as wonder, like even a childlike wonder, like I think their wonder, their sparkly eye, it's like you can see it, you can feel it, and I hope to never lose that. Like, as an adult, I want that childlike curiosity, wonder, awe. I love that. And I also really enjoyed hearing how simple your values are. Three words. Anyone can do that. Anyone could do that today. I always end every episode asking our audience to take a step towards financial freedom or take action from the call. And I feel like this could be a really good one. It's like, what are your three words, or what's your one word? Let's just get started. So, awesome, awesome stuff.

Another topic I really want to dive into, you compare modern fatherhood to this, like an invisible riptide. So, there's a drifting from the way that fatherhood used to be to this modern era. And you kind of talk about an invisible riptide, and it's dangerous because most men don't realize they're being pulled away until the emotional distance already exists inside the home. So, it's like, I mean, I had this experience one time, and it was like the one time in my life I was really out of shape, and it was like my metabolism had stopped. I was post-college and in college and high school, I just, I never had an issue. I could eat whatever the heck I wanted. I played a lot of sports, and then this was like a few years out of college, and I remember my roommate was like, “Justin, you're getting really chubby.”

And I was like, “No, I'm not.” And he is like, “I don't even think you could like run a mile.” He's like, “I don't even think you could run around the block right now.” He is like, "You're just working, and that's it.” And I was like, "Oh man.” And so, I just remembered looking in the mirror, and I was like, "What the heck happened? I've always been in shape, like I'm not in shape. He's right.” And then to prove him wrong, I went to go run, and I couldn't run around the block without stopping. And this was a city block, so one of the bigger city blocks in Chicago. And I was mortified, and I was like, "How did this creep up on me?” But I feel like that's exactly what happens with this invisible riptide. We're pulled to entrepreneurship. We're pulled to maybe it's making money like these things that we prioritize over the family. We don't see these little shifts away, and I'd love to have you lean into that.

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah. And just as a backdrop, the Riptide story, it was the wake-up call to me. I was in Australia. Byron Bay is the most Eastern lean point, this lighthouse, beautiful cliffs in a spot that I had been swimming many times. I'd surfed this beach, swam in this beach. I was familiar with this certain spot, and I was swimming there with my mom, and my oldest sister had come to visit me, and I had no surfboard, and I had no life jacket. I was just swimming in an area that almost felt like a lagoon along these rocks, and all of a sudden. I'm a hundred feet out further than I thought. And the level of pull that this riptide had grabbed me and the unknown, because there are cliffs around this corner. This is where the whales pass.

And this is a section that's very sketchy, and you could get hurt in a hurry. And I had to decide if I was going to swim a huge arc back to the beach or if I was going to try to climb out on the rocks. And that riptide, the moment it, completely unseen, it looked like it always was before I actually chose to climb out on the rocks. And I had cuts on the inside of both knees and elbows because I had held on with such strength, and waves would come over me, wave, wave, wave, wait for a break, and then scramble to the next rock, hang on to the next rock. And it was climbing back on those rocks to the beach where my mom and sister never noticed that I got pulled out.

This riptide incident nobody knew, and I come back with these cuts inside of my knees and my elbows because I had been holding on so tight to these rocks. The reason I share the story is fatherhood. There are wake-up call moments like what you just had, Justin, and I'll expand it to parenting in general. Life in general has these wake-up call moments that require courageous pivots, and for me, the courageous pivot in that moment was hanging on for dear life and getting to high ground. In fatherhood, it could be a health thing, it could be a moment of realizing friendships. Friendships. I've not attended to building this circle of friends. I'm isolated, and there's a loneliness epidemic in our world, right? It's that side.

It could be a distance of relationship with a child. It could be a marriage that's just like, man, we need to strategically and to like put in serious work to rebuild, and apologies are needed, and coming back together. But the fatherhood like, will not, we do not drift. Parenting, we will not drift towards deep connection. We will not drift towards the legacy that we're proud of. We will not drift. In fact, the drift is the exact opposite. The riptide will pull us in a direction of short-term thinking, disconnection, relationships that are just like getting by. So, these are things that are stirred up when I think of the riptide. And the wake-up calls, as humbling as they are, feels vulnerable when a wake-up call happens about I can't run around a city block.

Like, these wake-up calls are gifts. So, anytime we're in a conversation that I'm like, "Oh, this is an aha,” and I had the blinders on, I missed it, I'm always so thankful. I try in the moment. I try to be thankful when I have those aha moments because I don't want to just go with the flow.

Justin Donald: Yeah. Well, and I had one of those wake-up moments, and it's interesting because I feel like the prime target of these invisible riptides are ambitious fathers that are building something that they're excited about, and they're willing to do so much that they miss the connection of today for what they're building, that they prioritize over it. But on a daily basis, maybe you don't notice it. Maybe it's like, "Oh, I went to work early this day,” or, “I didn't engage, or I had to stay late and didn't get to do family dinner.” And it's like, "Oh, it's just this one time,” and then it just kind of becomes more and more.

But I actually remember there was one point, it's a number of years ago, and it was a huge wake-up call for me because I had, I'll just say. I have a hard time saying no. So, when people say, “Hey, you want to do this?” I'm like, "Yeah, let's do it.” I mean, I'm an Enneagram 7, so I like adventure. I like new things. I like variety. I love people. And so, there was a season where I was just doing too many events. I would just say yes to all the invites. And I remember I came home, and my wife was on the porch. I was home late, and I was like, "She should be sleeping right now. This isn't good.” And I noticed she was crying, and I was like, "Oh my goodness.” It was a tough conversation.

It was a big wake-up call of like she feels like the family and her specifically, our daughter was young at that time, but she feels like she specifically is second best, that everyone else is more exciting and this work thing is so important, and then this networking or this dinner and this meetup, and it's like she's getting the leftovers, and I didn't see it that way. I mean, this literally didn't even show up on my radar. But I felt so horrible seeing the shape that she was in and the fact that the choices I made left her there. So, that was one of those wake-up calls where it was like, “I need to step up as a husband.”

Jeff Zaugg: And we hope that we can create feedback loops that are welcoming and gentle that doesn't wait for those moments, we hope. But, again, they don't create themselves, these feedback loops of check-ins or how are you doing or where can I calibrate as a husband and a dad? So, those are humbling moments.

Justin Donald: And it's interesting. I want to ask you this question, and I'll let you answer and then I'll give my feedback on it. But it's like I just gave a scenario of, like, why I chose other things, not even recognizing that I was doing that. Like, in my mind, it was like, "Well, I was just saying yes to this opportunity. Seemed like a great opportunity.” I wasn't recognizing that my wife was, would always say, "Well, anytime you say yes to something else, you're saying no to us as a family. And I was like, well, I mean, “Okay. I hear that loud and clear. That thought never went through my mind. I'm really glad to have that perspective because that's not what I'm doing,” but ultimately, it is what I'm doing.

Jeff Zaugg: It is.

Justin Donald: And it took a while. Like, at first, I was like, no, no, no. I was very resistant, but enough time spent, I'm like, "No, there's a lot of truth to that.” So, my question to you is, why do driven men often apply more intentionality to their business than to their marriage and to fatherhood?

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, there's a phrase, “I'm the only one in the world who can _____.” And I'm the only one that can be a father to Kiva, Ruthie, Raya, Zara. I'm the only one in the world that can be a husband to Michelle. But beyond those two things, like almost everything else, someone else can do that. And I just was chatting with some of my buddies about grace and flexibility and gentleness that I show to absolute strangers. If a stranger stops me at the grocery store and needs this, and this, and this, and takes 15 minutes of my time, and I'm 15 minutes late to our conversation, I'll probably give them that 15 minutes and do it gently, and with like, “I'll make them feel respected.”

And then if my wife needs four minutes of extra time to make me four minutes late, the person I love most in the world, who I've been married to for 20 years here, just in a couple of months, we celebrate 20 years, how am I being so edgy and defensive and crabby with those who I love most? And I'm the only one in the world that can serve them, lead them, guide them, care for their hearts. And so, I'm saying this, I wrestle with this. I wrestle with this exact thing, and I think I need, this goes back to what you have every single month, a group of guys that help you circle it back around, "How is it going, fatherhood? How's it going, marriage? How's it going? These groups that help bring clarity and get the blinders off because, yeah, I'll give to the wrong things.

And I'll be a yes man as well. It's so easy to say yes to things. I missed a few of my daughter's birthdays, where I hosted fall events. We did hundred-mile bike rides all across the country, and I had these rent. Now, they came with. We lived in the RV and traveled, but I was doing a hundred-mile bike ride. What kind of energy did I have to give to my girls after? And multiple of them ended up on their birthdays, and I just like this was through, actually, it was a podcast conversation. I said, “I'm not going to do that again.” I have control of where I schedule, when I schedule these, and I'm going to protect those five birthdays. If I want to do something on my own birthday, great. But I have five birthdays here, I'm not scheduling stuff on. So, an example.

Justin Donald: That's good. And I have this belief that, and maybe this is right, maybe it's not, maybe it's only for me. I have a sense that this is probably more than just me, that when we come down to it, and we say, "Okay, we can now put time into fatherhood or marriage, or we can put time into the business,” the business is the easy default because we're good at it, because we've had many more reps. Like for me, I feel like I'm really good at business, and I feel like I'm good at making decisions and hiring people, and like that is a strength for me. So, when there's a problem, it's like, “Hey, I want to be the hero. Let me come in and solve it,” right? But the funny thing is it's like, well, of course, business is easier. I've had way more reps. Of course, being a father is harder. It's my first time.

Jeff Zaugg: It is.

Justin Donald: Of course, working on being a better husband is harder. It's also my first time. And so, it's almost like I'm just going to what's familiar, like the default. If I'm not being intentional here, I'm defaulting to the path of least resistance and also where I probably get a heck of a lot more recognition for what I'm doing. There's ego.

Jeff Zaugg: Yes. And just to add into that, if my intentionality, I can pull together resources, mentors, books, learnings, to put together an intentional weekend as a family. We're going to grow and do this experience and this adventure, and we're going to capture notes, and we're going to learn, and we're going to do a time around the campfire and speak words of life over each other. And I could design an entire experience, which I've never done before. I could go, I could spend the money for the campground or the resort, whatever the plan is. And I could bring my full heart to that, and I could bring all this intentionality. And I could fall on my face, and it could not go well, and they could be crabby.

So, actually, by putting a whole bunch of intentionality into fatherhood in a new frontier that I've never raised a 13-year-old before, right? It's your first summer with a 13-year-old. It's my first summer with a 12-year-old. It's wild because we're going to default to things that we can succeed at. So, as dads, as parents, often we won't bring our full selves to developing something or to crafting an experience or creating because we've never done it before, and by putting more in, we actually might, it might flop, and it might not go well. So, it's almost easy to stay a little bit level than to try for the big wins in fatherhood. But yet, I want to try for the big wins, and I want to fail miserably at times and ask and say, “I'm sorry. I'm going to learn from this.”

I want to default in the frontiers that are hardest, which is sometimes those I love most is the hardest frontiers, I want to bring my full self. So, yeah, it's a tension, though.

Justin Donald: Well, it's funny because it's the same thing with investing, where like you want to swing for the fences, but, actually, what you should be doing is hitting singles and doubles. And it's the same thing in like parenting and being a great father, being a great husband, it's like, no, I actually just need to do the basic stuff over and over and over. I need to be really good at hitting singles.

Jeff Zaugg: That's true. That's true.

Justin Donald: And by the way, if I'm not good at hitting singles, but I have this home run and put on this amazing event, and we crush this birthday, that doesn't make up for all the strikeouts I've had. So, I do appreciate that analogy. What are some practical systems or habits that can help these high-performing individuals in our ecosystem that are listening to this, that are watching this, stay emotionally present while still building a business or leading a team and doing it at a high level?

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, I ask a kind of calibration question. The intent is monthly. It's not always monthly, but it's about once a month on a dad-daughter date with each of my daughters. And I ask my wife the same question, and we joked about this earlier, but from DadAwful, DA, DadAwful to DadAwesome. How have I been the past 30 days? The past month? How's it going? I put a bunch of little check marks on this piece of paper, and I actually have them pick and circle a spot on this. And there's DadAverage in the middle, and there's DadAlright, and there's DadAngry, right? There's all the, this is for fun, but they circle a spot, and even if they circle 90% there to DadAwesome, there's a couple more checks to the right of their circle.

And I say, "Can you just give me two ways that I could improve this next month?” And I keep those in my nightstand. I keep all those pieces of paper. We do some other, I use pencil and paper to help pull out just a little more intentionality, take some notes. Sometimes they take the notes in their handwriting. It's just a way to be a little more thoughtful. Now the whole dad-daughter date is not that. We'll go surfing together, we'll go biking, and we'll do something fun. But I just try to get a little bit of time to put something on paper that helps me grow. And that's an example of a practice that is taking intent. I want to be an awesome dad to I'm implementing something that's going to bring interaction, and I can look back.

And the girls feel it. They feel it, and they've said things that I've noted, and then the next month they've said, "You've grown, Dad. You've grown.” And I'm like, "Yes!” So, that's one practical example. Here's the other one. The apology, mastering the art of the apology. Now, when I say mastering the art, some people are thinking, "Oh, you're just acting.” The heartfelt, “I missed it, and I'm sorry. Will you forgive me?” to one of my daughters or to my wife, in proximity to my girls, humility is a superpower of a dad, of a parent. Humility to say, “I'm wrong. I caused pain and hurt. Will you forgive me?” Here's the cool thing about it is the reason it's a superpower is it brings me closer to their hearts, the connection with the child that I maybe spoke harshly to.

If the sisters are in proximity, which they usually are, they see a dad connecting with their sister, and it makes them feel closer to me, so I get close. My wife, she thinks I'm more good looking, and she loves me more when I apologize. It's like a times three. It's like to my daughter, to my other daughters, to my wife. And like I feel I go to bed with more peace, more gladness, and here's why the apology is so important. I want to get to the rocking chair with love on my heart. It's just a phrase. It's another trajectory legacy thing. I want to get to the rocking chair, and that's like in nineties. I hopefully won't need a rocking chair in my eighties, right? I'll still be acting, but I want to get to the rocking chair with love on my heart, and most people grow older and get a little more crusty.

Life happens. Betrayal happens, like loss happens, valleys, sickness. And we get a little more crusty and edgy and frustrated. And all of a sudden, we're grandparents or great-grandparents, and we're just kind of like stuck in my ways, and I'm kind of crusty. I want to get to the rocking chair with love on my heart. And the apology is the way, saying I'm sorry, amending, repairing to those I love most. So, anyways, those are a couple of examples.

Justin Donald: So good. Jeff, this has been such a wonderful episode. So many great ahas and takeaways, strategies. Where can our audience learn more about you?

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, thanks for asking. It's been an eight and a half year journey of interviewing a guest every single week with the DadAwesome podcast, so over 430 episodes of DadAwesome. And then we just launched a book called DadAwesome just a month ago. All of those resources are at dadawesome.org. It's a nonprofit organization, that is I'm grateful to get to lead and is serving dads all around the world.

Justin Donald: That's amazing. Well, so thankful for our time here. This has been a blast, and I like ending every episode asking our audience a question. So, if you're watching this, if you're listening to this, what is one step you can take today to move towards financial freedom and really move towards living a life that you truly desire on your terms, so not a life by default but a life by design? And pick something today that can help you move in that direction, something that Jeff shared. So, thank you so much, and we'll catch you all next week.

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Justin Donald

Justin Donald

Justin Donald is a leading financial strategist who helps you find your way through the complexities of financial planning. A pioneer in structuring deals and disciplined investment systems, he now consults and advises entrepreneurs and executives on lifestyle investing.

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