How PAC Helps Professional Athletes Build Meaningful Legacies Beyond Sports with Chip Paucek – EP 299

Justin Donald: What's up, Chip? Welcome to the show.

Chip Paucek: Thank you, Justin. Great to be here, man. I'm thrilled.

Justin Donald: Well, I'm thrilled as well, and I've just had so much fun getting to know you, getting to know, like, the organizations that you've built, specifically in this case, PAC. I have become friends with a number of the members, some of them being athletes, some of them being entrepreneurs, and fellow investors, and I just think you've built something beautiful that I'm so excited to talk about and share.

Chip Paucek: Thank you. It's early days, but we're onto something special. This is my fourth startup, and I would tell you, really, I've done some stuff in my career. I don't mean that in a braggy way. I've had some wins, I've had some losses, but some of the wins have become real successful, and I would say this one, I think this really has good odds of being the most important thing I ever do. They're an incredible community of people that are elite in every way, and they don't really realize it. And our goal is to help them. Pro sports should be an amazing first meal, not their last meal. And so, you see this just incredible stuff coming out of the community that really makes it special. So, I love it.

Justin Donald: Well, I can't wait to dive into it. I want to dive into the businesses that you've started as well, and even your track record. But I've got to say, I mean, really, I think the first time I was kind of turned on to learning about you guys was when I had Devon Kennard on my podcast a while ago. And he's just such an amazing guy. We brought him out to one of our events and had him speak. I did a fireside chat with him. It was really cool, having the opportunity to kind of hear from a guy that listened to my podcast and read my book, that had a positive impact and influence on him in the way that he invested and created passive income, and then on the books that he's written.

And so, like, for me to feel like I've had a piece of any of that is so cool. Even the smallest bit of influence there is just a really humbling feeling. And then I was sharing with you off-air that I just had Devin McCourty on the podcast, who's just a world-class human, and it's been so fun getting to know the people in your ecosystem.

Chip Paucek: Well, both those guys are on our advisory board. Devin is one of our board chairs, and they're incredible. I mean, they played a long time in the NFL. What they've done post-playing is pretty remarkable. People tend to know Devin McCourty, not Devon, more because of he's on... Sunday Night Football is the number one television program on planet Earth. So, his ability to transition directly into broadcasting is amazing. But Devon Kennard is really successful post-playing and is a great example of a player applying themself in a space like private lending that you just wouldn't immediately expect and is doing exceptionally well.

I remember, by the way, when he told me about you. So, pretty cool for us to come together, and we've been thrilled to have you involved in PAC. But those two guys are part of the reason that I just love doing this.

Justin Donald: Well, it's so fun meeting. And by the way, I've met countless people that I could just rave about, but I appreciate, one, being an investor in PAC, number two, being part of the advisory council of PAC, and that's a great honor, so thank you. And then three, like the reason I want to kind of get this out there to my audience is because over the last 10 years, I've been in probably 50 different masterminds. Right now, I'm currently active in 14. I don't attend everything. I just go to things that I think can move the needle for me. And part of the way and reason that I built the Lifestyle Investor Mastermind was based on those previous experiences. What did I like about these groups? What did I dislike? How can I create something that I feel like is world-class at every level?

And so, as a guy that puts on events for a living and facilitates groups for a living, I feel like I've got a good eye for those that are doing a good job, those that are maybe falling short. And so, the reason I'm so excited about PAC is because I have attended your events, and I rank them in the highest category of any of the things that I do. And so, like, I want to just give you praise and admiration for what you're building. Obviously, for me, I love teaching people how to invest and how to create financial freedom, how to create passive income, and I think pro athletes are a great avatar for it. But I want to be around world-class humans. I want to be around big thinkers.

I want to be around people that are actually rolling out and they say they're doing things at the highest level, and then they actually do it, and that's you, Chip, and that's PAC. And so, that's why it's an honor to have you here.

Chip Paucek: Oh, yeah. I will take the flowers, but it's a team effort. We have an incredible team of people. I feel at this stage of my life, I'm 55, this is my fourth startup, I feel really genuinely very blessed to be doing it. It's early days. We're still a startup. We're not out of the woods. But for the listeners, for the viewers, PAC stands for Pro Athlete Community, and we think today we're the largest private membership organization of pro athletes in the world. And I would say what's crazy about it, Justin, is like in both of our worlds, there's a variety of affiliation-based groups that are interested in having me join. Like, as a founder, I was courted by a bunch of these different organizations, and I joined a couple. And I would say I got tremendous value.

One that I really loved was Founders Forum, and I got great value out of it. I met great people that were in a similar experience, if not the same experience, and very often dealing with the same set of issues that I was dealing with. And being able to be around people that were pushing the envelope, starting companies, dealing with all the challenges of starting a company, incredibly valuable. I was really blown away when we started this, that no one has really done this for pro athletes. It's the most elite group of people. And what people don't understand in general, like I'm a huge sports fan, now that I'm closer to it, what people don't understand is much more difficult. It's not just about this athletic ability.

Like, their athletic ability is incredible, obviously, but they really didn't win because of their athletic ability. And when I say that, people are like, "What are you talking about?" It's true. They won because of... There was always a better athlete around them with rare exception. It's grit, rigor, drive, resilience, teamwork, all these characteristics that are going to matter tremendously for the rest of their life. And unfortunately, the world decided to tell these people that they're retired at 31 or at 28 or at 35 or whatever age it is. I'm 55. I started this at 52. Like, I'm nowhere near done. I'm not retired. They're not retired. They're just done playing their sport.

Justin Donald: Right.

Chip Paucek: And unfortunately, they go through the identity loss of having 80,000 people screaming their name coming out of the tunnel. And then they get handed a black trash bag their last day, and they're out. And all of a sudden, the phone's not ringing. And it's also psychologically very difficult because when they were playing, they were told that they weren't serious if they were doing anything but that sport. And that's not life. And really genuinely, people don't know. Like, every Tuesday, there's like a corporate layoff in the NFL because there's another group of people coming in to take those jobs. And so, we found that by giving them a little bit of exposure to all these different opportunities for them to go forward, and then putting great people like you around them, it's pretty awesome to see what happens.

We have all these incredible outcome stories coming out of PAC. So, it gives me joy just to have an opportunity to do that at this stage of life. And I'd be lying if I said it wasn't super fun to be doing it with Devin McCourty and Devon Kennard and Candace Parker and all these folks. They're amazing, you know?

Justin Donald: Yeah. It's just so good, and it was good hearing Candace talking from stage about how she recognizes she's not an expert at investing. She may be an expert in a niche of pro athletics, but that she needs to surround herself with people smarter in that category than she is, that she can lean on, that she can learn from, that she could grow with, that she can partner with. And I think that's kind of like the story, right? Like, these athletes have been successful, like you said, for various different reasons, but least likely is their athletic ability. It's like all the other mindset, grit, persistence, all these things that kind of did it.

Chip Paucek: And think about when you're hiring, Justin, how hard it is to find people with those skillsets with grit.

Justin Donald: Totally.

Chip Paucek: I feel very fortunate that I have a great family. My parents are great, but I didn't grow up with a ton of resources. When I got to college, paid my own way. I didn't own a winter coat, had never seen snow. I got a Pell Grant. And since I've done some stuff, and I'm proud to tell you that I really believe my kids are growing up with grit. I really believe my kids... But I worry about it. And you look at what these folks have done in their athletic career, and it's remarkable. Like, it's 1% to the fourth power. It's like it's so unusual that so rare for somebody to make it that far. And then, unfortunately, when they're done, you know, there's so much ahead, and very often it's not a good experience. We've done way too many moments of silence at PAC.

Like, people really just don't follow that this is... It's a harder existence than... When people first hear about PAC, Justin, a lot of times, I hear of 30 for 30 broke. "Oh, you teach them how to not lose all their money." Look, financial literacy is an important part of what we do, without question. Top members of PAC get a financial coach as part of it, and that's great. But the head and the heart work to really make sure that the person is in a good place and that their family is in a good place, is really where it all starts. Like, the leadership development. You just said something that really resonates with me, like learning. I'm in my 50s, so I've got some tread on the tires. But I'm always learning.

Like, if you're not learning, if you're not continuing to try to evolve, truly, like, for me, when I'm ready to not really be fully engaged in whatever it is I'm doing, then I will retire. But a lot of people in my life think I'll never retire. But I'm certainly not there yet. I'm really trying to do something right now that it's not easy to do this, to bring these pros together, and proud to tell you that we had our best month ever last month. We had 202 new pros in May.

Justin Donald: Wow.

Chip Paucek: And you start, like, just doing the math. There are 770,000 pro athletes in the world. I really believe every sport needs this. We've learned some stuff over time. Candace Parker, as you mentioned, she was a big deal for us in terms of breaking into women's sports. And you know what's really wild is people are coming from all over the world, and like Americans in general don't know a lot about sports like cricket. All the same set of issues. Rugby, same set of issues. The original football, what Americans would call soccer. Same set of issues. So, we think that this can turn into one of the more important organizations in the world because sports is the great uniter. Really worldwide, it's a great uniter. Brings together all different types of people, all different types of political backgrounds, all these things. And we feel like we're going to be the group that's uniting that.

Justin Donald: Yeah. Well, I love that. By the way, I'm blown away that there aren't even a million pro athletes in the world. Like, that number is pretty shocking to me. Three-quarters of a million.

Chip Paucek: Yep.

Justin Donald: So, it's a much smaller pool than what I would've imagined, which tells me it's even harder than I would've thought to become a pro, like a smaller percentage that make it. So fascinating, kind of learning the numbers. But I'll tell you, you had said something about the difficulty of transition out, what's chapter two, or whatever that next phase of professional life is, personal and professional, but certainly professional. But I also think, like, let's not forget, while someone is a pro athlete, there's kind of a target on their back. People are like, "Ooh, they make a lot of money." And most people think that they make more money than they do because they don't take into account taxes and maybe some learning lessons, and some pay that is kind of like, well, if you hit your incentives, you get these, and if you don't, it's actually a little bit less.

And so, I think in many ways, pro athletes are glorified, their income, their salary. So, now you have all these people that are like, "Ooh, let me find them to pitch my deal. Like, I want to..." And you get a lot of bad actors that kind of come out of the woodworks targeting these high-income earners, or in many cases high-income earners. And it really is a shame because they're great at their craft, just like anyone in their profession is great at that. But there's so much that we don't know, like how to be a great investor, how to actually vet a person, vet a deal, vet, like, all sorts of things, vet the terms of the deal. And so, I loved having an opportunity to, like, serve in that capacity and see that you guys are also serving in that way.

Chip Paucek: I appreciate that. I'll tell you, unfortunately, there are a lot of crappy people that are going after our members for wrong reasons, that it's not good. And we feel like a big part of our job is to curate an incredible group of folks that are going to pour in for the right reasons, pour in to, because they love it, because they want to help mentor a pro. I was really thrilled that we have a current, you know, a bunch of folks that have gotten involved. And one of the folks that is joining you on the Business Leadership Council is the really famous actor, Kelsey Grammer, and I think you met him at Excelerate.

Justin Donald: Yes. He's awesome.

Chip Paucek: A big fan. He just agreed to mentor a running back in the NFL that really is very serious about getting into acting, and that's a tough world to break into. And so, I was thrilled to be able to put Chase Edmonds together with Kelsey Grammer. And just some of that is just our core job is just putting good people around good people. The players that are joining PAC, first of all, I would say there is some self-selection bias. These folks are joining to improve their lives, period. We like to think that we're the locker room they'll never be cut from, and the locker room for their future. But the important part of that is to make sure that we create a trust-based environment.

And I really think, like I'm a big believer in the concept of durable moats. If you can really build a durable moat when you're building a start, very hard to do. And there's a bunch of different examples in history of moats that have been created by companies. The funny thing about PAC is I think if people looked at it, and you were doing like a… If you were at Harvard and you were doing a case study on it, like you probably end up coming with a long list of things like network effect. And like, if now that we've really got it rolling, it's going to be harder and harder to be the second pro-athlete community, right? As a start, just as a start. And at the end of the day, network effect is meaningful. The flywheel's meaningful. There are meaningful things, but I really believe the moat is what you just said.

It's trust. Like, we built this in a manner where they know, our members know, yes, they're paying a membership fee. That's our business. Yes, we bring in sponsors. That's our business. Yes, we have opportunities where we create revenue for them. Like, we have a thing we just launched called PACfluence, where if you're a brand in the world, where would you go to get 200 players to put something up on social media at the same time? That doesn't really exist. So, we think that's a great opportunity. But at the end of the day, I'm not trying to get in their pocket all the time. I'm not trying to run their money. I'm not trying to get them to invest. And there's a lot of that. And the reality is, not all those folks, they're...

By the way, there are some folks that do that, and they do it very well. And so, I'm certainly not throwing shade at everybody. But there are a bunch of folks that aren't doing that well.

Justin Donald: That's right.

Chip Paucek: So, our job is to really try to find the great people like you and put them around the pros. And what I found is these folks are cut in a manner that, I mean, just to parlay it too, like, physicality, the ability to get hit and get back up again, I mean, this is not easy. If you apply that to the mental component of what somebody has to do to be able to go at this the way they've gone at it for that long, and the rigor associated with it. Like, there's a moment, Justin, this didn't happen at the event you came to, but there's a moment at a past event where we had someone coming in and giving a session, and he actually put me up on stage and he had me trying to diagnose plays. And I really consider myself, you know, football's my number one. American football is my number one.

Justin Donald: Yeah. Me too.

Chip Paucek: I'm like a lunatic. I mean, I live in Annapolis, Maryland, and until this past Christmas, where my family went on a big trip to Thailand and to Hong Kong. It was amazing, but that is the first home game that I've missed for the Dolphins in a decade, even though I live in Maryland.

Justin Donald: Wow.

Chip Paucek: Yeah, yeah. Like, I got a whole problem. That's a problem. And by the way, not been the easiest decade, for what it's worth. But I love it. And so, I consider my ball knowledge to be high. You know, like, whereas if you're going to ask me to diagnose hockey, I'm not going to be as strong. I'm getting better. And they put me on stage, and it was both really funny purposefully, like they made it funny because I was lost. And they had the players come up and do it, and it was genius. And I would tell you, like that moment for the players was like they know that I took my last company public. They know that I've done some stuff in business, and they respect me a lot.

And so, all he was trying to illustrate is like this is actually exceptionally difficult, what they do. The combination of everything that they've had to do is really hard. And so, net…

Justin Donald: And it's different with every team. You go to a new team…

Chip Paucek: The whole thing's new.

Justin Donald: Everything's different. Yeah.

Chip Paucek: And I was talking to Jake Browning yesterday, the quarterback. I don't know if you know that quarterback.

Justin Donald: Yeah. He's awesome.

Chip Paucek: He's one of my favorite PAC members. He's just a wonderful guy. My wife and I are going to his wedding in two weeks, which is really going to be fun.

Justin Donald: So cool.

Chip Paucek: He's great.

Justin Donald: I've gotten to know him at the last two events that I've done, too.

Chip Paucek: Oh, you know what? Didn't he go? He went to something after with you, didn't he?

Justin Donald: Yeah. We ended up just like hanging with a bunch of the players, just get a bunch of food and hang out, and he is awesome. And he's well on his way investing and kind of like building another business. So, it's cool seeing the growth he's had.

Chip Paucek: Yeah, and he's got a great relationship. His wife, Steph, she's great. But the reason I bring him up is he's now moved from the Bengals to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. And he's got a whole new regime. And it's going well. I mean, he's actually doing quite well, but, like the amount of knowledge that he has to take in to do the entire thing brand new, it's not all the same stuff. It's an entirely different language. But nonetheless, life is complicated, and there are eras to your life. You know this. You go through these different moments in time, and transition's also very difficult. My last company, I started it, ran it for 16 years. I took it public. I was a public CEO for 10. When I left to do this, I mean, number one, I was proud of myself going from whatever we had, like 4,000 employees, back to two.

Justin Donald: Didn't you do it like a billion in revenue? Like, that's incredible.

Chip Paucek: It's pretty big. It got pretty big. But the reason I bring it up is like the transition out of being a public CEO. Now, I wasn't Jamie Dimon, or I wasn't a known quantity, but in my market, I was a pretty big CEO. The ed tech market, there are very few companies that get to a billion in revenue, and I had a really good friend of mine who had gone through this, David Steinberg. He created a really successful company and then ended up leaving and going to create another really successful company. He's on the council with you, by the way. It's called Zeta Global. Very cool company. David was like, "Just get ready, man, when you leave," because you have all these trappings.

He's like, "You're going to be standing in line at Starbucks, and you're going to be jacked to just be another guy standing in line at Starbucks. And by the time you get to the register, you're going to be sh*tting your pants that you're just another guy standing in line at Starbucks." Am I allowed to say that, by the way?

Justin Donald: Oh, you're good. You're good. Yeah, yeah.

Chip Paucek: But it's true. Like, that transition for me, going from this company that I started, public CEO with all of the variety, a lot of pressure. So, the relief of not having that, the quarterly call, the investor pressure, the shorts, all this stuff was very real. But it's also a big part of your ego, and it's a big part of your person. And not having it anymore, you think about what the players go through. My transition out of the CEO role of 2U was really meaningful. It pales in comparison to Antoine Bethea, one of our signature members, played 14 years. He was one of our first guys to come to PAC. 14 years. Like, that transition out of…

Justin Donald: That's a great career. Yeah.

Chip Paucek: Incredible, by the way.

Justin Donald: The longer the career, the harder it is to transition out, though.

Chip Paucek: And he was a dog, man. He was a really good safety. But the reason I bring him up is, like, that 14 years of doing that and having that level of notoriety and fame, and pressure, the moment you're done, it's really hard on these folks. And the other thing I would say is they've been scheduled so intensely, and then the moment that they hang up their cleats, that schedule is entirely gone. And so, figuring out how to fill that schedule appropriately and have passion about a new thing that isn't football. So, we try to put the best people we can around them. And we have people that help them with their business. We have people that help them with their nonprofit because a lot of our members are going to go deep into a foundation to improve the lives of kids or to improve their neighborhood or whatever it might be.

Like Devin and Jason, whom you mentioned, the two McCourties, they have a really successful charity for sickle cell. But it's also early in their life. There's so much ahead. So, just figuring out how to have a great second, third, fourth act. I mean, I really feel like this is now my fifth act, and I think I got pretty good odds of this one being the best act, you know?

Justin Donald: That's awesome. And by the way, that's so great for anyone who's listening or watching this to hear. It's like whatever act you're in right now, the next one could be and most likely will be better and bigger. And so, like, there are a lot of people listening that aren't pro athletes, but it's the same thing. When you're transitioning from one career to another, or you're taking a big step, and it's a big step of faith into something new that you haven't done, I think it's important that you can build the confidence and put the people around you. You mentioned earlier just the power of community. I think of the power of community in building wealth. And that's massive.

Chip Paucek: Well, that's a huge part of what you do, right?

Justin Donald: Yeah, for sure. And like you, I mean, we're super aligned on this, where it's like, hey, the people in our community, they pay to be a member, but then we want to get them the best deal, surround them with the best people. Like, the whole financial services industry, I think, is misaligned because they make money whether you do or don't make money. So, it's like how do we create something that is unbiased, where it's like, “Hey, we've got information, and we're in it even with you"? And so, like, I know you guys are doing that. Like, we don't make any money off of anyone's money in any deal, or any strategy, tax strategy, anything that anyone does. And it makes us, and you guys, the anomalies in the space, because everyone in the industry makes money on someone else's money, makes money if they do an investment.

But I just always felt like I can't be in alignment if there's that type of a bias. If I can be incentivized by you putting money into something, then I could be tempted to lean to have you put something in this deal where I make extra, versus this deal that maybe is the better deal, right? And that should never be a temptation, but it actually is in virtually all of financial services.

Chip Paucek: Yeah, early on in PAC’s history, we had a moment where we were doing an internal company meeting and we put up on the screen the international no symbol with the “vig” in it, the old gambling term “vig.” And so, taking a vig, like that is, look, there’s a reason that it exists in the world is people make a lot of money doing it. But that’s not the right call for this. Like, for us, just building great community, what’s been really cool by the way is all of the member-led stuff now is, like, I’ll give you an excellent example. So, Tre Flowers, really great NFL player, I mean, he played a long time, unfortunately, tortured my Dolphins, and I get all kinds of crap from the McCourty’s, and Jason did play for the Dolphins for one year, so he’s nicer about it, but Devin is just vicious with me, but in a funny way. So, oh, God, where was I going? I just went, got off kilter with Devin. Now, I’m thinking about Devin giving me crap about the Dolphins, and I can’t believe who I’ve confused with.

Justin Donald: Tre Flowers.

Chip Paucek: Oh, thank you. Yeah, perfect. So, Tre came through one of our programs and he got really passionate about the public speaking pathway taught by Shon Hart. Great program. I tell all the players I think they should all take it. I really do. I think it’s elite. You don’t just learn how to speak in public and learn the business of public speaking, but you learn your voice, how to have a voice. And so, Tre went through, got really passionate about it, got good at it. Now, he’s doing a bunch of gigs, but he also is a man of faith and he leads a monthly Bible study on our platform.

Justin Donald: That’s awesome.

Chip Paucek: And it’s real popular with the players and like, that kind of member-led activity, there’s more and more of it inside the PAC ecosystem. And I think as we start scaling and we’re going to different geographies, we just had a conclusion. Today was the conclusion of the public speaking, this six-week period. And Shon did, because we’ve had so much international growth, he did a cohort for a bunch of international folks, and it happens to be like a star-studded group.

Jessica Smith, a Paralympian. She’s a very famous Paralympian. She was born without a left arm. She’s a swimmer. She’s incredible. And then, Denise Hoefer was the padel champion in Germany. And then, Patrice Evra, the very famous, best full-back of all time, and five Premier League titles, captain of Man U, captain of the French World Cup team, incredible. And then, The Beast, so Tendai Mtawarira, in rugby, 117 World Cups, he’s generally regarded as maybe the most iconic rugby player of all time. Watching them all go through it and get such great value out of it, and now they’re going to go out and continue to spread the word and it’s really neat to just see all the stuff coming out of the community.

Justin Donald: That’s beautiful. Yeah, it has to be cool to see, like, what is organically happening because, I mean, to a certain point, like, you’re setting tone, you’re setting culture, leadership, but it’s cool when you see the leaders emerge that are doing amazing things there. And by the way, speaking of your Dolphins, one of my good buddies here, Dustin Keller, you may know him from his time on the Dolphins.

Chip Paucek: That’s awesome.

Justin Donald: So, we play paddle here and pickleball. He’s great at both. I mean, he’s just a natural born athlete.

Chip Paucek: Can I ask you a funny question?

Justin Donald: Yeah, sure.

Chip Paucek: As a paddle player, do you call it padel or do you call it paddle?

Justin Donald: So, I think it’s paddle, but when people explain it, the accent, since a lot of people playing, I think it originated overseas, they all say padel.

Chip Paucek: Yes. It is very popular worldwide, and the US, it is emerging.

Justin Donald: Yes, it is.

Chip Paucek: Where I live in Miami, it’s very popular. Miami’s, like, one of the hotter spots for paddle. But the reason I bring it up is when we were in Dubai at a PAC activation, a bunch of the players were giving us crap that Americans are the only people that call it padel. Everybody else in the world calls it paddle. It was like the Americans are trying to be fancy, which I thought was very funny.

Justin Donald: So, that’s how I have learned it as well, is that it is, that we would call it paddle.

Chip Paucek: It’s cool.

Justin Donald: Yeah. But it’s a fun sport. And by the way, what I actually think, Dustin, I mean, he’s a freak athlete. His brother-in-law also a freak athlete, a professional baseball player. Like, really amazing playing with these guys that are elite level at different sports than what they were professionals at. But what he’s best at, actually, he is world-class as a trash talker. There is no one that trash talks better than Dustin Keller, let me tell you. I’m going to have him on the show as well.

Chip Paucek: Well, there’s quite a bit of practice when you’re a pro athlete.

Justin Donald: That’s right.

Chip Paucek: Trash talking part, I love it. I do love, like, one of the things that’s been really pretty cool for me is to be able to work out with all these folks. I actually can tell you that, like, working out with The Beast in Dubai, like, oh, boy, they’re cut different, but…

Justin Donald: Yeah. That’s got to be really inspiring and really motivating and just, like, your mind gets blown at what is possible what the human body can do.

Chip Paucek: Mad respect for their ability, their drive, all these things. and I never had anywhere near that level of athletic ability, even though I love it. But it’s something to watch. So, as you know, having come to our event, we do Pros and CEOs golf, we do Pros and CEOs pickleball. For the execs that are listening, you can find out about our events on our website, and it’s ProAthleteCommunity.com. And the Pros and CEOs stuff is really amazing because we sort of flip the script and instead of having our members be the celebrities, because they’re used to being celebrities at a golf tournament, it’s actually the CEOs that are celebrities because that’s what the players want. So, we match it too, and it’s cool. It’s great, so…

Justin Donald: I think what you guys did at this last event, when you said you flipped the script, I felt it. I felt the difference from two years ago versus last year where you said, “Hey, we’ve got the pro athletes here. We’ve got those that are currently playing, those that have retired and moved on, they’re on their second or third chapter of their new professional life. And then we’ve got the CEOs or the executives over here. So, we’re going to do some combo stuff with everyone, but we’re going to have some separate stuff too.” I thought it was really cool. And some of the sessions that you had for us as the executives in the room were really powerful sessions. I actually just had Justin Forsett on my podcast.

Chip Paucek: You did?

Justin Donald: Yeah, he’s a buddy from before PAC, and he came into town for his wife’s birthday and I was like, “Well, if you can slip away, let’s do something in person.” And so, we did.

Chip Paucek: He is awesome.

Justin Donald: Such a great guy. And you had him speak to us. He’s a killer speaker.

Chip Paucek: Well, he’s a great example. Like, pro bowler, nine years in the NFL, I think 9, maybe 10. The guys will give me crap if I miss any year, because every year counts, but I think it’s nine.

Justin Donald: I think it’s nine. Yeah, he played on seven different teams and nine seasons.

Chip Paucek: Okay. And so, like, long career, particularly running back. That’s a long career.

Justin Donald: For sure.

Chip Paucek: But what he’s done after, I mean, he started a company called Hustle Clean. And so, he’s an entrepreneur. And now, he’s really become a gifted public speaker.

Justin Donald: He is so good.

Chip Paucek: He’s really good. So, that’s actually a great example of somebody becoming an expert at a new craft. That’s also like what life should be. You just keep going, keep evolving, keep learning. And I’m wired that way in particular. I think, really as an entrepreneur, I think the word that defines me more than anything else is drive.

People that are smarter, people that are more analytical, people, there’s all kinds of traits where you can win. That’s kind of how I win is, my drive. But it’s just remarkable to see what some of these folks are going to do as they go through these various new stages of their life. Like Drew Bledsoe has become a really big advocate of PAC. And the thing about Drew, he was an amazing quarterback. I know he was the first pick ever in the draft. Drew got replaced by Tom Brady. That’s crazy. That whole story is unreal. He gets seriously injured, gets replaced by a six-round draft pick that becomes Tom Brady.

Well, like, he had an amazing career, but what he’s doing right now with his winery, Doubleback. Here, I’ll show it to you. He actually gave me a bottle. And I love that when he signed it, he wrote, “So, it begins.”

Justin Donald: That’s cool. He’s a cool dude. I enjoyed hanging with him.

Chip Paucek: He’s awesome. And this wine is like, he’s probably more known worldwide now for his wine than he is for his football. And it’s all sustainably built, like no migrant labor. Like, it’s really interesting. And so, that kind of stuff, like that, his second act is truly going to be a bigger deal than him being the first pick in the NFL draft, which I know sounds ridiculous.

Justin Donald: That’s right. Well, and Julius Thomas, like his story was incredible to me. Like, let me go back to school after retiring from an incredible season as an NFL great to become a doctor. And then he’s a great speaker as well. I mean, that was really neat spending time with him. Yeah, well, well done on so many levels.

One of the questions that I definitely want to ask you, you’d mentioned about this being your new locker room, this is the locker room for the rest of your life, this is the long-term one. And really, like the power of proximity, people, other players doing cool things, but other executives doing cool things. Like, I think you got it right on both sides, but why do you believe that community and relationships are so critical to long-term success for wealth creation or just success in general? Like, this is the moat you’re talking about, but why do you think that’s it?

Chip Paucek: One conversation can change your life. You never know when it’s going to happen. You just got to be open to it. And people tend to be too uncomfortable, and you have to get comfortable being uncomfortable. You have to insert yourself into situations where you’re going to– and you have to be open. You go in with an open hand. And obviously, you have to protect yourself, but I find that most people don’t appreciate the power of just being with people. Networking is unbelievably beneficial. It’s how business happens. It’s how people get jobs. It’s how people get opportunities. You just have to put yourself in the right setting to get those opportunities.

For our members, it’s pretty extreme because if you are a pro athlete, and I know, I have a bunch of our members say all the time, “Yo, Chip, I’m not Pat Mahomes.” I’m like, “Dude, you don’t need to be Pat Mahomes.” For people like me that bleed aqua and orange for the Dolphins, like, there’s not a single Miami Dolphin that’s ever played that I wouldn’t want to sit and have lunch with. Like, that’s how I’m wired.

Well, the reality is if they apply themselves doing that networking, it’s pretty remarkable what comes from it. We have many different examples. Every day, there’s a new story about somebody. Like, when you were at Excelerate, I was thrilled to hear that afterwards, you had a group of players go engage in your work, in your conference. Like, that’s what it’s about. So, community is, and we have to be careful. We have to curate the community. We have to make sure that people that are not treating the community properly don’t stay in the community.

So, we’ve kicked people out, to be honest. Like, that’s part of our job. It’s not the fun part of the job, but it’s important. So, if somebody on the business side is coming to our thing and all they’re doing running around is pitching everybody all the time, that doesn’t work, right?

Justin Donald: It doesn’t feel good. Yeah.

Chip Paucek: Right. So, we have to curate it, but there’s nothing better, in my opinion, than being with other human beings. I think in this age of AI also, I would tell you that I think authenticity is going to be harder and harder to find. And the human connection matters. And also, sports bring people together in a meaningful way. So, I think that combo is important, and I also think from a business standpoint, creates great value for PAC over time. We’re big believers in AI. Don’t get me wrong. I’m actually personally a big believer.

But I also would tell you that, like right now, I actually think, from a business point of view, you want to be as close to the model as possible or as far away as possible. And what I do like about PAC from purely just a business standpoint is Candace and JT and Mark Ingram and all of our members, they’re not going to be replaced by AI. They’re real people.

Justin Donald: Yeah, Mark’s a great guy. I got a chance to go to a noon game kickoff because one of our members, Courtney, is actually one of the highest-ranking females on the production side of Fox Sports.

Chip Paucek: Oh, that’s cool.

Justin Donald: And so, she got me behind the scenes, and I got a chance to hang with all those guys. And we kind of golf carted from where they were into the stadium and got to be kind of standing on the field with them for the game.

Chip Paucek: He is genuinely hilarious.

Justin Donald: He is so funny. He’s like a stand-up comedian.

Chip Paucek: Yeah, I agree. The three funniest PAC members, just for the people that love ball, the three funniest PAC members, I think, in our three-year history, Mark Ingram, Ted Ginn Jr., and Jamel Dean. They are unreal. Like, you should have those other two guys on because they are just naturally funny. So, I love all three of them. They’re great people.

Justin Donald: Well, I can’t wait to meet the other two. I have spent some time with Mark, but not the other two. So, I’ll have to do that. Yeah, it’s so fun getting to know people. It’s also neat seeing the skills being taught in real life. So, you just talked about networking, but what you didn’t share that I want to highlight is that you actually teach the athletes how to network. Like, for me, I’ve been networking my whole life. Like, this is how I got ahead. Like this is, and I wasn’t good at first, but I’m naturally curious. I love to learn. I like to be a student, so I’m always asking people questions. And so, I would say the success that I’ve had is 100% due to peer group mentorship, like the relationships that I’ve built.

And so, I love being at the events where it’s like, “All right, guys, we just taught you how to network. We just taught you how to even save this info as a contact in the phone. Now, go to work. Go meet with these executives and start practicing what we have role played here.” And it’s funny, like, watching some guys are a little more confident. Some are a little more like, ah, you can tell it’s their first person they’re talking to. But they’re doing it in real time and they’re sharpening and honing those skills.

Chip Paucek: In a safe space. That’s part of what we say is like, “Look, this is a curated room. It’s never going to be easier than this. Like, these are all people that are here to meet you and are excited to meet you.” So, we do teach it. We actually did an exercise a bunch of times that is pretty wild where the person that teaches networking gets them through a little bit of an inside exercise, and then he puts up a phone number, divides them into groups. And the phone number, the players have to go out live into the city, we were in Miami Beach, go down Miami Beach and get people to call that number and give a piece of business advice. It’s really hard to do, and these guys get super competitive.

So, it turns into a team sport. And like the last time we did it, I think the team that won had 53 phone calls. But think about a group of NFL players walking into a restaurant needing to network with people. So, that’s a much harder thing to do than to go to a curated room where people are there specifically to meet you. But nonetheless, it’s all part of just the journey of growth, just like your stuff. I mean, it’s all– and some guys really, really want to know real estate. Some guys really want to know entrepreneurship. Some folks want to get into franchising. Some folks want to get into entrepreneurship through acquisition, where they might go buy a pool company or a fence company or whatever it might be that’s cash flowing, and how to turn that into something. And then, some folks just really want to give back to their community, and that’s also a wonderful thing to do. So, we try to provide whatever it might be that would both inspire the members, but also, give them meaningful opportunities go forward.

Justin Donald: Yeah. Well, it’s just great. I love the idea just of the power of networking these two key groups together and really, being highly selective. Highly selective with who’s down to earth, who’s kind, who’s willing to engage. Not too big for their britches. And so, I’ve met some great people because of that. And you don’t always think that. I mean, what I should say is often, when I meet a very successful entrepreneur or a very successful athlete, and luckily, I’ve been in rooms with many of them, expectations are not met because often there’s an ego attached to it. And it’s kind of like, “Oh, man, I was hoping for a little more.”

But that’s not the case in your room. I was talking with this with Devin McCourty, where I was like, “Everyone’s so down to earth and so humble and so, like, just willing to talk and hang out and connect, and it doesn’t matter what you’ve done before.” That’s rare. Super rare. That separates you from everything else out there.

Chip Paucek: I appreciate. You’re embarrassing me.

Justin Donald: Well, it’s good stuff. It’s good stuff. Well, where can we learn more about PAC and you and anything that you’re excited about?

Chip Paucek: So, our website’s ProAthleteCommunity.com. Our Instagram is proathletecommunity. And I would say, we’re real active on our social media and on our website with just what’s coming next. The company is evolving. The membership has gone completely global. Our first several years of our existence, it was almost all football.

In the last 90 days, I actually reviewed this with one of our investors, a couple of days ago, so I happen to know the numbers, but the last 90 days, we had 20 LOVB Pro volleyball players. That’s the new pro volleyball league for women.

Justin Donald: Great.

Chip Pauce: 17 golfers, about half of whom were women in the last 90 days, 61 soccer players from literally all over the world. So pretty excited to see the growth and we have a whole bunch of folks that are meaningful that had a meaningful impact on their sport, and then we had folks that barely made their sport, and we care as deeply about the latter category. We, candidly, in many ways, that is really what we’re all about is making sure the folks that got into the game, whether they– I have a lot of players that’ll say, “Hey, I barely got a cup of coffee.” And then I’m like, “Dude, you got a cup of coffee in the NFL. It’s still incredibly powerful, and it counts.”

Justin Donald: That’s right.

Chip Paucek: And then, we have people like Drew Bledsoe that played for a really long time. So, I would encourage folks to, if they’re interested in getting involved, if they’re interested in attending an event, would love to hear from them. My email is chip@proathletecommunity.com. So, pretty easy to get it to me.

We also have a bunch of ways for business to get involved. We just launched a public speaking bureau where people can have our Pros come and do talks. And so, an example, like the company Robinhood has been very active in the public speaking bureau. So, we have good ways for brands to get involved and get active. So, if you’re interested, I’m easy to find and would love to hear from you.

Justin Donald: That’s awesome. Well, I’m excited for people to learn more and to connect. I think the world also of Travis and Kaleb, who are on your exec team, co-founders and partners with you. I mean, you just have built a world-class organization, and it’s fun being part of it since for me, I love sports anyway, so it’s just like the perfect outlet for me, kind of like you and the Miami Dolphins, for me, it’s the Chicago Bears, and luckily, for the first time in a long time, we’re actually relevant again.

Chip Paucek: Yeah, last year was great. I mean, it was great watching. I mean, I feel for the fan bases that have had the rough go because, I mean, I was in the stadium for the last Dolphins playoff win. It was the year 2000. My kids are 21 and 24, and they’re as diehard as I am and they haven’t had that much to cheer for couple years ago when Tua and Tyreek were going off. It was fun, but that era’s now over.

So, here we are. We’re in another rebuild. But I was really happy today to see Aaron Brewer got a big extension. He’s a PAC member, really successful center. He was an All-Pro this year as a center, also, just a really good human being. So, it’s great to see the personal side. It is great to get to know these folks more intimately and…

Justin Donald: Yeah. Well, and that’s what’s fun. Like, for me, I leave these events. So, now, I’m fans of these guys that I’ve been hanging with. So, I’m rooting on all these different– it’s like fantasy football. It’s like that unlocked all these different teams and all these different players. Well, I went to the ESPYs last year and met a ton of these guys that are just playing at the highest level. And so now, like, as I’m drafting or whatever, it’s like I’m rooting for this guy, I’m picking this guy because he was really cool with me when we hung out. And I love that I can be a fan. It gives me one more thing to be excited about when I watch the games.

Chip Paucek: Yeah, it is funny how much PAC has changed how I view football, how I view basketball, now that I know a lot of these folks. And then the other funny thing is my seats are, when we IPO’d 2U, we didn’t move to a new place or buy a new car or whatever. The one thing I kind of did for myself based on my wife’s recommendation was they just remodeled Hard Rock, and so, they were selling the seats that are on the field in the end zone. And so, I have what I think are the four best seats in the entire stadium. They’re at the pylon, so you get this great diagonal, and you’re on the field, so they’re literally, I mean, you’re right on the field. And they’re really cool. You got to come to a game. And so, what’s funny about PAC is now that PAC is a thing, pretty much anybody the Dolphins are playing, there’s a bunch of PAC members.

Justin Donald: That’s right.

Chip Paucek: They all come and they give me all kinds of sh*t. And it’s pretty fun, but…

Justin Donald: That’s cool.

Chip Paucek: It’s not quite as fun when we’re having a bad game, we’re getting creamed. It’s not quite as fun. But it’s all in good humor, buddy.

Justin Donald: It is. It is. Well, it’s been…

Chip Paucek: I take my stuff pretty seriously, so mid-game, I’m not quite excited about it.

Justin Donald: But it’s an excuse to get people to come up to you, which is great, encouraging that relationship. So, I love it. It’s been wonderful having you on the show, Chip. You have so much energy and passion for what you’re doing, and it’s contagious. And so, I hope people tuning in here get a chance to feel that, experience that, and then come check out what you’re doing.

Chip Paucek: Thank you. I will give your viewers one construct that if they’re not familiar with, they could look into, that I love. It’s called ikigai. So, it’s a Japanese term, and it stands for kind of your reason for being. And there are four concentric circles, and if you find the middle of the four where they overlap, that’s your Ikigai.

And the four are what the world needs, what you get paid for, what you’re good at, and what you love. And for me, I can tell you what’s really special at 55, is I feel like I finally found my Ikigai. And so, if you can really find that center, it’s pretty remarkable. So, I tell my kids, that’s really something I impress upon them. And great Chicago-based entrepreneur, the founder of Cameo, Steve Galanis was where I learned that from. So, I leave that with you just to say, like, go find your ikigai. I’m thrilled to tell you that this is my ikigai, so.

Justin Donald: Oh, I love it.

Chip Paucek: And the logo’s pretty cool.

Justin Donald: Well, thank you for joining. And I love ending every episode with a question to our audience. So, if you’re watching this or if you’re listening, what is one step you can take today to move towards financial freedom and really just living life on your terms truly the way you desire to? So, not a life by default like most people, but a life by design. Thanks for tuning in, and we’ll catch up with you next week.