Scaling Philanthropy to End Human Trafficking with Ryan Sobey – EP 110

Interview with Ryan Sobey


C.L. Turner

Scaling Philanthropy to End Human Trafficking with Ryan Sobey

Over 50 million people are trapped in the world of human trafficking, and today’s guest is doing something about it.

Ryan Sobey is the VP of Anti-trafficking at Love Justice International, an organization that has helped over 34,000 people worldwide escape human trafficking, find freedom, and reconnect with loved ones. They’re a testament to the fact that with the right people and mindset, any organization can be financially successful while also providing value to society.

Love Justice currently operates in 22 countries, and Ryan has been an integral part of the efforts that helped them contribute to over 1,200 arrests worldwide with an over 35% conviction rate. While Ryan and his team are on the front lines stopping vulnerable people from becoming victims, they also help traffickers find a better life for themselves, stop trafficking and deter others from following their path.

In today’s conversation, we discuss why real human trafficking is much more brutal than what we see in the movies, Love Justice’s scalable business model that they’re helping other human rights organizations replicate, and the importance of using your passion for being of service to others.

Featured on This Episode: Ryan Sobey

✅ What he does: Ryan Sobey is the VP of Anti-trafficking at Love Justice International. Through Love Justice, Ryan has helped thousands of people worldwide to escape sex and other types of human trafficking. Love Justice currently operates in 22 countries and has prevented over 34.000 people from becoming victims of trafficking. They’re also helping other organizations join the anti-trafficking fight by giving them all the knowledge and experience they have for free.

💬 Words of wisdom:  A lot of us have a passion for wanting to do something to change the world. And having that passion is just an inkling of what it takes actually to be successful.” – Ryan Sobey

🔎 Where to find Ryan Sobey: LinkedIn

Key Takeaways with Ryan Sobey

  • How Ryan went from studying genetics and working as a safari ranger to being the VP of Anti-trafficking for one of the most impactful human organizations in the world.
  • The skills he picked up from his corporate background that helped him deal with NGO donors (often very demanding) and communicate effectively with people from different cultures who need help.
  • Why human trafficking is so much more than what’s depicted in Hollywood movies, and why it’s often present in some of the nicest suburbs around the world.
  • The unique strategy that Love Justice used to prevent over 34,000 people from becoming victims of human trafficking and that helped them effect over 1,200 arrests worldwide.
  • The importance of helping traffickers and having compassion for them instead of demonizing them.
  • Why Love Justice is giving out their playbook to other organizations that want to have a similar impact.
  • Why everyone has the skills to make a difference in the fight against human trafficking.

Ryan Sobey | Driven By Passion: How “Love Justice” Is Impacting The World

Ryan Sobey Tweetables

“We have this tendency to want to rescue and to give our expertise to try and see if we can make a difference. But ultimately, if we empower the right people, they can make far more impact than we ever could on our own.” - Ryan Sobey Click To Tweet “We know that if we’re going to make a big difference. Collaboration is always the answer.” - Ryan Sobey Click To Tweet

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Read the Full Transcript with Ryan Sobey

Justin Donald: Ryan, hey, I’m so glad to have you on the show. This is really exciting for me, having you on, having Love Justice on. What you do as an organization is just something I’m so passionate about. The lives that you’re saving, just the lives you’re changing, it’s incredible work. And I just want everyone to know about you and Love Justice International in the story.

 

Part of the reason why I want to partner with you guys and donate all the proceeds of my book, The Lifestyle Investor, to your organization is because I think you do some of the most incredible work out there. And it’s dangerous work, but you guys just really embody love and courage. And I’m just so glad to have you on the show. Thanks for joining.

 

Ryan Sobey: Yeah, thanks, Justin. It’s really, really an honor to be on your show. And I just love your curiosity into what we’re doing and just thanks for giving us a platform to talk about more about our model and how we change people’s lives, it’s exciting. So, thank you so much for having me.

 

Justin Donald: Oh, it’s my pleasure. Well, hey, you got a really cool accent, and I’ve got a really good friend that grew up in South Africa. He lives here in the US. He actually lives in Tucson, Arizona, and does some firefighting today. He used to be a swimmer, Olympic level swimmer. And I’ve just heard so many cool stories. I’ve been to your country. I had an amazing trip to South Africa all over, on a safari, in Kruger Park to going to Cape Town. And I just loved my time there. So, I’d love to hear a little bit about your story growing up and what it’s like living in South Africa.

 

Ryan Sobey: Yeah. Well, I must tell you South Africa is, as you have said, a beautiful and amazing country. And we do get around, wherever you go, you’re going to find some Africans. So, I’m glad you found us and became friends. Myself, yeah, I’m from a small town called Pietermaritzburg. I actually didn’t grow up in the nonprofit sector at all. I did a degree in genetics and biochemistry and zoology. And so, my life is a little bit different when I was going to university to what it is now.

 

But while I was doing that and being a game ranger, by the way, as well, on the safaris, and then getting into the financial sector, Love Justice was becoming this amazing organization that it is today. My wife and I, we had this passion to help women who were trapped in the sex industry, actually. And that’s kind of how we got involved in the anti-trafficking sphere.

 

And it was about four years ago that Love Justice approached me and said, “Would you help us to grow countries in Africa?” And so, I started working with them, and we started a few countries across the African continent. And then just a little while ago, we sort of moved everything around, and I became the VP of Anti-Trafficking, sort of overseeing the work across the world for anti-trafficking in particular.

 

And so, it’s been an amazing journey. I’ve loved every moment of it, and it’s amazing to be a part of something that’s not only excellent and thinking really hard about what we’re doing and how to make a great impact, but also just seeing the lives that are being changed. So, it’s a great process to be a part of.

 

Justin Donald: Well, I’m so glad that you kind of switched over. I mean, that is a big transition going from the financial industry to nonprofit, and specifically in basically all over a continent and in an area that you personally don’t have a lot of expertise and you may have a passion for it, but there had to be a big learning curve, right?

 

Ryan Sobey: Absolutely. Just to understand, the NGO sector is one thing, and then also just to really be able to deal with people in different nations with different cultures, different tendencies and be able to work with them well and just having an understanding that if you want to succeed in a different country, it’s really important that you let the people in that country do the work because they understand the culture, they’ve got the language. They know the nuances of the way that people react and how they’re going to make decisions. And so, it’s really important to empower them to be able to do the work. And I think that was one of the biggest learning curves I went through. And often, we have this tendency to want to rescue and to give our expertise to try and see if we can make a difference. But ultimately, if we empower the right people, they can make far more impact than we ever could on our own.

 

Justin Donald: It’s so true. It’s interesting hearing about the transition that you made because I feel like most people that have the chops to be in the financial industry kind of have this goal of moving up the corporate ladder and doing some big things in the space of finance. And so, I’m curious if that was originally your thought or your plan or what that look like because I don’t know that people make a decision. Most people, I would imagine, it’s not like they are growing up as a kid and they’re like, yeah, I want to get into nonprofit, or yeah, I want to help rescue kids and I love that you have, but I’m curious how that happened and kind of what your original plan was and then what it was that captured your attention here.

 

Ryan Sobey: Well, I think a lot of us have a passion to want to do something to change the world. And having that passion is just an inkling of what it takes to actually be successful. The NGO world, let me tell you, is incredibly difficult. You’ve got your donors who you have to make happy. And you’ve got to communicate so well with them because they are the ones who are empowering you to do the work. And then you’ve got the people on the ground and you have to help and provide excellent services to and be really thoughtful about what you’re doing. And so, you’ve always got this tension, but also there’s a lot of work to make it really work well.

 

And so, I would say coming from the corporate world, it was a wake-up call to how hard it is to succeed in the NGO world and how to do it well. For myself, personally, I think everyone wants to be successful, no matter what you’re doing. And I think it was wonderful to be able to employ some of the things that I’m good at in an area where success is people’s lives and be able to save people’s lives through that success. I mean, we think I’m no one special. Just say that it’s just great work for that organization is doing that well and I think we have quite a great corporate mindset for excellence. So, it helps with that too.

 

Justin Donald: Well, I think the children and the women who are kind of trapped in this sex slaving or labor slaving would feel otherwise that you are someone special because you’re rescuing, you’re helping, you’re spending your time rescuing innocent children and innocent people. And so, I’m just so impressed with everyone I’ve ever met at Love Justice and I’m impressed with the content that you create and what you do to educate the marketplace. But I’d love for you to share some information.

 

I think most people probably have no realization or very little realization of what’s really going on in the world, even in their own home country. Even here for many of us listening in the United States, I know we’ve got a lot of people watching and listening from all across the globe. But in your home country, sometimes there’s this bias like, oh, it’s happening everywhere else, but it’s not happening here. And I’d love for you to share just some of the raw stats or info so people can know how problematic this is and how it’s much bigger of an issue than what most people realize.

 

Ryan Sobey: Yeah. I think when people often talk about human trafficking, they think about the sensational kind of stories that they’ve heard. It’s the Liam Neeson movie, which ends well for the good guys. And it’s the documentary, maybe they saw. And typically we find that those documentaries usually tend to just steer toward sex trafficking. And that’s because it is horrific. It’s a horrific crime and it causes irreparable damage to people.

 

And so, when we tend to think that most people gravitate, especially in the developed world, towards sex trafficking, but actually, it’s a plethora of different kinds of trafficking. And each country has different forms of trafficking within it. There are some countries where kids are forced into labor a lot, and that’s a lot of Asia. South Asia, in particular, has a lot of that. We see it sort of in West Africa as well, sort of child labor trafficking, domestic servitude of women in particular that I’ve seen that a lot in sort of the Eastern Africa countries and everything all the way across to do organ harvesting. Not that we see that too much in our line of work because we’re trying to get them prior to exploitation.

 

But every country is different. Let me just be clear, and I would say in every country that I know of sex trafficking is prevalent simply because there’s a demand for it. There’s demand for those sex services, but every country is different. And to be honest, it actually is often in the areas that we least expect, and sometimes, in even the nice suburbs that people live in, these things are going on. And so, definitely it is prevalent across the world. It’s probably more prevalent than we think it is and it definitely is more than likely to a lot of people as well.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah, it’s interesting because I feel like prior to learning about your organization, I think part of me just didn’t want to believe that this stuff was really going on. Part of me didn’t want to recognize that there are people in this world that could even do that sort of thing, but really getting involved and learning more and being part of the organization, my eyes have just been opened. And I think you do a great job of educating.

 

You send out these regular newsletters and so much of it is like the victories that you’re having. I mean, I remember I got a newsletter from you where in one month, your organization rescued over 500 children in a single month. And that to me is exceptional on one hand and so devastatingly disturbing on the other hand. It’s so great that 500-plus kids inside of one month are being rescued by their true human life freedom back, but to even think that that many and so many more are being deprived of their basic human rights is just a horrific thought.

 

Ryan Sobey: Well, I’ll slightly correct that a little bit. Not that you’re totally wrong, but we don’t necessarily rescue the children. And a lot of those would have been adults as well. And let me explain a little bit better. So, I want to expand the model to you because the model is so important and it’s really key to our success. And so, typically when you think about anti-trafficking work, there are usually two sides that people gravitate towards. The one is awareness and sensitization. And this is a critical area where people would go into everything from schools and town halls to rural villages, and they would bring awareness about human trafficking to try and avoid those people entering that situation. And that’s great. A lot of organizations focus on that.

 

But the problem with that is it’s not tangible. Like, I don’t know, it’s very difficult to know how many people were actually affected by that awareness. The other side is rescue. And rescue in particular is people knocking down doors, usually involves a lot of investigation. So, you’re going to need someone who’s really good at gathering information and then you’re more than likely going to need to work very closely with the government authorities and then locate particular people that are being trafficked and then go and rescue them.

 

And also, critical work has to be done and it’s amazing work. But the problem with that is often those people, they have undergone extreme exploitation as we’ve discussed. And it takes a lot of time for them to be healed if they would ever be healed. And it costs a lot of money to get someone rescued. Where we work is in the middle, so typically, not always, but usually, someone has to travel from point A to point B to get trafficked.

 

Now, that could be they are forced to do that, literally taken and dragged, or they are deceived. They could be told, “Hey, why don’t you come to this particular big city? I’ve got a job waiting for you, and everything’s going to be good. Don’t worry, I’ll organize your documents. I’ll make sure everything’s ready for you. You just have to come with me.”

 

And in those scenarios, people are simply sold a too good to be true offer. And when they arrive at their destination, that’s when they get trafficked. And so, we have one or two standard critical transit hubs that could be a train station or a bus station or an airport. And they are trained to profile people coming through those transit areas. So, looking for what we call red flags, and then when they see that, they would go and engage with them in a really well-thought-out and scientifically formulated questioning protocol that allows us to determine whether there’s a high chance that person is in the process of being trafficked. And then if they are, we would really encourage them to stop their journey, or in some cases, get the authorities involved to stop their journey.

 

And so, we would call that an intercept. And when we say now, just use it as intercepts that we’re looking for. And the reason why we really love the intercept idea and why we feel like it’s taking off across the world is because, first of all, it’s pre-exploitative. So, this person has not undergone all of that severe trauma. They don’t need the restoration that has to go with that.

 

Also, we can gather amazing information from them. If there is evidence of illegitimate means of control, it means we can gather that and we can give it to authorities who can then effect arrests. And by the way, we’ve had over 1,100 arrests over a 35% conviction rate, which is amazing, across the world.

 

Justin Donald: Wow.

 

Ryan Sobey: It’s really good. And so, we just love the model because we feel like it’s really one of the answers to do things cost-effectively, and intercept is by far a lot more cost-effective than rescued. And we know the exact numbers. We got tangible results. So, that’s why I love the model and what we’re doing and really believe that we can reduce the prevalence of trafficking by using this.

 

Justin Donald: Well, that’s incredible, Ryan. And what’s neat about it is it’s almost like there are two different separate components that you’re able to capitalize with that same situation. So, you get the intercept where you’re actually rescuing the child, but then you can also piece it back to figure out who’s the person that sending them, who’s the sender, who’s the receiver, and you can prosecute that way. You can go after them that way so that there’s less of this going on in the first place. And some of the stories of these kids being reunited with their families, and their families didn’t know that they were gone or hadn’t seen them in a little bit and were concerned and were trying to find them and couldn’t find them. And they’re literally across the country in a train station or across town or in a totally different city. It’s so heartwarming to see kind of what happens and the deception that lies within this whole orchestration as well because I think a lot of it is predicated on that.

 

Ryan Sobey: It is. And I think one of the things we have to be very careful of is I say this with caution, but demonizing the trafficker because often, as much as we want to see them arrested and to reduce the demand for those who are being trafficked. We also feel like a lot of the traffic is in it for circumstances that they’re not really responsible for either. I mean, a lot of poverty is going on, and obviously, over the past couple of years, it’s really torn up economies and people are desperate.

 

And by all means, they shouldn’t be doing the things they’re doing. But you really also want to have some compassion on the traffickers to say, can we help them as well to not be doing this? And that’s hopefully through the arrests and the cases that we open against them. Hopefully, it will deter others from doing that.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah. And then it’s really neat to see kind of your strategy because there’s almost like this intervention or something that needs to take place to kind of help prevent this in the future or even figure out why one of these children was willing to go and kind of how to get them back on the path of not trusting these individuals or not being deceived. And so, I’m just blown away because when you hear the story of an actual family and you see the pictures and the devastation that was kind of riding in the wake of the potential devastation. And in some cases, it’s true devastation because it’s gone full circle. In a lot of these cases, though, you’re intercepting prior to them being gone, prior to them living this life and being fully trapped. But it is just heart-wrenching to even consider this, especially for anyone that has kids of their own.

 

Ryan Sobey: And I mean, when you think about some of the stories that you would have read about, these poor parents wake up one day and this son of 16 has run away. I mean, unfortunately, in a lot of those scenarios, those kids didn’t have a lot of prospects growing up in the villages they were in. They were offered this deceptive offer that will probably have them working in a mine somewhere, mining for metal or breaking rocks or whatever it would be, and earning nothing and being a slave.

 

But when you’re young, you make silly decisions. And to see that reunification of a parent and child is amazing. And it’s those stories which are going to keep us going. I see them all the time. But it’s also great to get them out into the news that is in the emails that others can read about them and see the difference we’re making. It’s amazing.

 

Justin Donald: Well, and sometimes, Ryan, I think it’s almost like valiant of what the kids are doing because they actually want to be able to provide for their families, and maybe their families are really struggling. So, it’s like, well, hey, why don’t I make some money and help the family out? And so, it’s not always a selfish thing of like, let me get out of here. Let me make something better. I mean, often I think it’s like, let me help serve my family so that we can all get to a better place. And so, it’s done from this good place, but just really not knowing there’s an ignorance to what it really is.

 

Ryan Sobey: Agreed. Yeah, a lot of people are just trying to help and a lot of people are just trying to get themselves into a better place and just be able to, hey, I love the job, and it’s said. On that note, I mean, we have the inklings of an empowerment program, which we are working on at the moment. It’s by all means fledgling and in its infancy, but it’s something we really want to work hard and think through is to help people who we are sending home because, I mean, we truly believe it’s better to be home and free and to be in the destination in the slave that we love to be able to help them even more in that by empowering them when they get home, empowering the community and giving the skills they need to succeed where they are.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah, and I love that next layer. Hey, how do we educate these kids? How do we reinforce good mindset habits and good work ethics? And how do we empower them to be able to do great things inside their community for the benefit of their entire community, which is really, really cool? So, with all of this, like, where did you start in this organization, Ryan? And where are you today? And I’d love to learn a little bit more of kind of like your path.

 

Ryan Sobey: Well, I started four years ago as Africa director, and that was responsible for the countries that we had in Southern Africa and then trying to grow into new places. My skill set, I love expansion. I love taking new ground, putting the flag in the ground and holding it there and finding new places to become impactful. That’s really what gets me ticking.

 

And so, that was my original position. And then I think about eight months ago or so as we kind of reorganized the organization, seeing the growth that we had gone through. I think we had around six countries four years ago. We’re now sitting at around 22 active countries, and so we need to restructure a little bit. So, I took over the anti-trafficking operations, and then other guys have moved to different areas.

 

Let me just tell you, I mean, if you’re looking for skills, Love Justice is really unbelievable. I play a very small part, but they are amazing people who are doing ridiculously good things, people who could be in the corporate world and making just a ton of money, but they really are employing their minds to grow Love Justice. One of them is John, the president. We’ve got Perk, the chief of staff. He’s doing amazing job. We’ve got VPs in the US doing our development and marketing who are just absolutely brilliant. So, I just played a small part in the expansion of anti-trafficking operation side.

 

Justin Donald: Well, that’s just so great to hear that there are so many capable people that said, “Hey, I want to really do things that make a difference now.” And by the way, that’s not to say that anything anyone else does doesn’t make a difference. I think we all make a difference. We all can and should aspire to make as big of a difference as we can. But I think when we find what it is that we’re truly aligned with, where our superpowers just kind of come out and help, whatever it is, scale, maybe it is a business, but maybe it’s an organization like Love Justice, or maybe it’s a totally different organization, but it empowers people, it empowers just strong characteristics and strong values. I just think that is an incredible thing. Now, how many countries is Love Justice in right now?

 

Ryan Sobey: We’re currently operating in 22 countries. I think we’ve piloted in 24. The way that we work is we really want to look for countries that we can be the most impactful in. And sometimes, we’ll start somewhere and actually realize that there are too many obstacles, or for whatever other reason, we just feel like the operation is not going to work. And so, we will reallocate our funds to areas where we know we can get better impact.

 

So, we call it allocating by impact. We want to make sure that every dollar is spent in the place where we can affect the most lives so in those countries stretched across Africa, so Southern, East, and West Africa. Southern Asia in particular is well covered in terms of India, Bangladesh, Nepal. Southeast Asia, we’ve got Indonesia and Cambodia. And then we’ve actually recently started in Mexico, Central America, and we’ve got a fledgling pilot that should be going in the next few months in Alaska and in the US. So, we’re really feeling like we’re in a position to explore it across the world. To be honest, we’ve developed a system that’s scalable, and I think that’s one of the things I’m most excited about.

 

Justin Donald: And one of the things that I think is really cool about you guys, Ryan, is instead of saying, hey, we’ve got this proprietary methodology and strategy that we just want to keep for ourselves, for our organization to grow it, you guys are so generous about just saying, hey, here’s the playbook. We’ve been doing this. This is successful. Any organization that wants to come in and fight for justice, fight for freedom, and help in any way, shape, or form, we don’t see you as a threat. We see you as part of the group, part of the mission, and we will gladly give you our playbook. I just think that that’s really admirable. I’d love to hear your thoughts on that.

 

Ryan Sobey: Well, a couple of years ago, we kind of did a gut check and we did some math and we said, “Well, listen, if we wanted to significantly reduce the prevalence of trafficking, how many intercepts would we need to get?” And I think it was in the hundreds of thousands per year. And as much as we expand now and going as fast as we can, I think it’s going to be quite some time before we get hundreds of thousands a year.

 

And so, we thought, well, we need to find what we call impact multiplying strategies. We need to find maybe potentially partners who would be willing to do this so that it’s not just on our shoulders to use this model, but if anyone else feels the need that they could take it and run with it, by all means, we would be happy to empower them. And that’s kind of what we do anyway. We go into a country, we find a local partner, and we empower them to make a difference. This would just potentially be on a slightly bigger scale.

 

And so, we know that if we’re going to make a big difference, collaboration is always the answer. I mean, we play a part in the end to trafficking scene, this big plays in awareness, big plays in rescue, amazing organizations who need to be uplifted and supported, but collabing across the whole spectrum, as well as with business and other partners who potentially might think this is a good idea, that’s where we feel that we can really make a big impact and really hurt trafficking and reduce the prevalence there.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah, that’s great, Ryan. What else do you want to make sure that our audience knows about Love Justice, about the work that you do before we wrap up here today?

 

Ryan Sobey: I think just that everyone plays a part in stopping human trafficking. I think you kind of spoke about it a few minutes ago just saying people in different areas and doing different things, whether you are in a corporate making lots of money, it’s wonderful. You can still support the effort. If you’ve got talents and skills you can give to NGOs fighting, anti-trafficking, please do that.

 

We need great minds and we need great people on the front lines and behind computers and doing development and software and just really covering all the basics. We need everyone and everyone needs to play a part. And I think when people realize that they don’t have to be the person pulling someone out of a brothel, they don’t have to be the person who’s a monitor in a transit area. They can be doing and using their skills to help fight this thing. And if we’ve got enough people up, I promise you, we’d be able to make the big answers.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah. I think it comes down to human capital, having the right people on board, the ship moving in the right direction, but I think it’s actual financial capital as well. That’s another component of it. One of the things that was important for me with my book, I wanted my book to be an education vessel that would teach people financial freedom. I wanted the dollars created from the book to go to providing actual human life freedom, buying people’s freedoms back, their God-given freedom and rights.

 

And so, for me, I feel very inspired seeing what you and so many others on the team are doing. And I just think about how culturally, I think there’s this big push to be a big-time entrepreneur or be a big-time corporate executive, move up the ladder as quickly as you can, where there’s this backdrop of it being about the financial gain, moving up, having more money, having more disposable income, having toys and material possessions. And all of our marketing and our ads are based around that, conditioning this idea of wanting more and that buying things is going to bring happiness.

 

And so, I just love the message that you’re giving and what your organization does and that there are other ways. And if you are truly living your purpose here on Earth, you will wake up feeling great. I mean, most people, they don’t like what they do. They certainly don’t like the hours that they do it. But if they found the thing that they love doing, and this is a small percentage of the people that ever really do this, then amazing things happen. They’re living their dream.

 

And so, part of my goal and what I do, Ryan, is I want people to buy their freedom back, their time back to create freedom so they can spend their time in the way that serves them the best way, that serves their family, that utilizes their unique gifts and talents the best. For most people, I found that they have to get rid of their biggest obstacle, which is paying the bills, like the financial aspect of living and surviving and being able to just do life. And once you remove that, then people can tune in to where their God-given gifts are and they can use that to serve.

 

But you don’t have to do it that way. You can figure that out while being in corporate America. You can figure it out while taking a sabbatical or on a vacation or taking time to yourself, but it’s probably not just going to come at you. It’s probably going to be intentional time that you’re kind of plugging in and checking in with yourself. But I love teaching people my path, but my path is not the only way. And I think if people would just carve out the time to really figure out what their hearts’ desires are, I can just see a lot of amazing things happening in the world, so.

 

Ryan Sobey: Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, for your listeners, in particular, I just really can imagine them having the space and time to think about how they can leverage their capacity, their skills and abilities, and their experience to really help other organizations. We’d be happy at Love Justice to take some of those. But as you say, everyone’s got their own passion, and it may not be anti-trafficking, it may be something else, but if they’ve got that freedom, what a beautiful thing.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah, no doubt. And then the other part about it is maybe for you, it doesn’t fill you up to do that type of work, but to know that some of your hard-earned money can go towards it. I don’t know that I’m equipped the way that you’re equipped, Ryan. I love that you have these gifts and this passion where you can be on the ground running things. I feel like my gifts are totally in a different direction with people and kind of coaching and training them up, but I also realize that there are a lot of things. You can spend your time, but you can also spend your treasures, your capital to help in the organizations and charities and nonprofits that matter the most to you. And I just hope that whether people do it here with Love Justice International or in another organization, that they’re totally all about that they just do it. They do it ideally both with time and with finances.

 

Ryan Sobey: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s the engine, which keeps us going, and of course, the more funds we have, the better human capital that we can employ and the further we can go. So, yeah, thank you, I agree.

 

Justin Donald: So, Ryan, where can we learn more about Love Justice International?

 

Ryan Sobey: Well, you can go to our website, which is LoveJustice.ngo, and go and have a look at all the different stats there. There are also articles on the impact that we have, how we even measure impact and why we measure impact so closely, how we measure impact on the dollar and dollar to intercept, etc. So, you can really dig deep into all those different aspects if you want to.

 

Alternatively, there are just great stories of the people that we’ve been able to help. So, jump on the website there. And then if anyone else wants to make contact, I’m also pretty available and I’m happy to give up my email if you would like that and help get people plugged in.

 

Justin Donald: Yeah. What’s the best way to contact you, Ryan?

 

Ryan Sobey: By email, this is ryan@lovejustice.ngo, R-Y-A-N. And we’ll meet you if you want to get in touch and get involved.

 

Justin Donald: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to share your story, share your passions, and really give your gifts to an organization that’s doing great things in the world. I think that’s incredible. And I just want to wrap up today the way I always wrap up, which is this, I love challenging our listeners and those watching to take one step, take a step today. It might be small. Just take a step, move in the direction of financial freedom. Move in the direction of a life by design, not by default. Carve out the time and the space to figure out what it is that you want in your life, on your terms, in the way that you can use your gifts to serve the world in the best capacity. Thanks, and we’ll catch you next week.

 

Ryan Sobey: Thank you, Justin.

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