TLI Member Spotlight: Unlocking Passive Income by Starting Small with Asim Hafeez – EP 186

Justin Donald: What’s up, Asim? Good to have you on the show.

Asim Hafeez: What’s up, Justin?

Justin Donald: Hey, this has been a long time coming. You and I have been friends for just years and years and years, I mean, well over a decade. And you’re a member of the Lifestyle Investor Mastermind. So, I want to highlight some of the cool things that you’ve been part of. But moreover than that, I want to tell your story and all the cool things that you’ve been able to discover, experience, create in a way that may be helpful and useful to our audience.

Asim Hafeez: Yeah, let’s rock. I’m excited to be on here. I’m excited to get a chance to– I mean, just even have a conversation back and forth. You always add value in my world. So, I’m happy to be on.

Justin Donald: Well, I appreciate it. Well, you’re one of the unique people that, prior to the Lifestyle Investor Mastermind ever being what it is, you and I had a coaching relationship, and so, there weren’t too many people that I did form a one-on-one coaching with. And so, it’s fun that we have that history. We have the history of the mastermind. But I also have this, I want to call it front row seat to all the cool things you’ve been up to, to the businesses that you started, to some epic experiences, but also some epic blunders in the world of business and all the crazy stuff that goes on that is totally unpredictable, right?

Asim Hafeez: Absolutely. It’s been crazy and it’s interesting. I was actually just talking to somebody about the coaching relationship we had and a few other coaching relationships I’ve had. They are considering coaching or paying for something and they ask me like, “Hey, is blank coaching going to be worth that?” And I remember thinking, that’s such an interesting question because when I was considering having coaching, whether it’s masterminds, etc., one of the things that I wrote down is can I make an ROI this year? Yes, no, maybe, I don’t know what the answer is, but I just caught myself thinking the lifetime value of coaching is insane, right? Because most people are like, “Hey, well, am I going to make this money back this year?” I was like, “Sure, that’s fine. That’s a fantastic goal. And if you can, then that’s amazing.” But if you just look at a 1% increase in income or a 2% decrease in taxes or whatever, or 2% decrease in expenses that you get to hang on to for your life, it’s wild, let alone you being able to pass it down to people that you know and love. It’s like the return for me has always been like near infinite when I do the calculation of what’s the lifetime value of said coaching relationship.

Justin Donald: Well, I think you’re very unique in the way that you look at it, and I wish more people looked at it that way, that instead of looking in these small little moments here and there, yeah, what’s the lifetime value? Because you learn something anywhere, whether it be from coaching, a mastermind, a book, a podcast, or whatever. You learn something. You can take action on it right there, but that’s the gift that keeps giving because you can use that same information for the rest of your life. And so, that’s why I’m also such a huge proponent of that. And it’s also why I’m part of so many masterminds, is that I know that the lifetime value of the dollars I’m investing in myself will have a return. Sometimes it’s immediate, and sometimes you can see it and you can feel it and it’s tangible, right? It’s a linear transaction, but sometimes it’s a little more esoteric. Sometimes it’s not immediate, sometimes it compounds kind of in a hidden place. And then all of a sudden, years later, you get this huge return on it. But I love the way you look at it long term because it makes it easier for you to pull the trigger and say yes to investing in yourself.

Asim Hafeez: And Justin, it’s so interesting, right? Because when you’re in the back end of it, when you’re in the payoff period, you’re like, oh my gosh, of course, like I was crazy for you. Even like thinking that wouldn’t be worth it. But I also get it, like if you’re strapped and you’re like, oh, I don’t like– we’ve all been in those moments, right? But it’s really interesting, almost like somebody who bought a decent rental 30 years ago. They might have been strapped for cash and now, they’re like, oh, that thing’s 700x in money or whatever it is. I’m silly for even considering.

So, yeah, it’s been good. Lots of great conversations. We were just talking about one of those things makes onto my notes consistently still to this day. That was just a random conversation we had or you said, and I was having this weird, I don’t know if it’s guilt complex is the right word to use, but like, okay, I got to do more. I got to do more, I got to do more, I got to do more, and I got to figure out a way to do more for people and give more, more, more, more. And you’re just like, “Hey, dude, just pause for a second. I just want you to maybe consider that you–” you said, “You don’t owe anyone anything.” And I was like, “Huh. That’s interesting.” Never really looked at it that way.

And that simple thing has made it onto my notes section of my weekly review ever since then and that was three years ago. Who knows? That might stay on there for the rest of my life. And you’re like, “What?” Just that one sentence alone, like, “How much value does that add? How much does it reduce for the rest of my life?”

Justin Donald: Yeah, I love that you have a cadence of that. And by the way, that to me is just that lesson right there is really important because you’re not on the hook to have to do it. But I love that there’s the optionality to do it as often as you can, right? How can we add value as often as we can, but not feel obligated to it, do it out of a place of joy, out of a place of service, out of a place of love? That’s a way different temperament. It’s a way different experience than feeling an obligation that you have to fulfill something that’s not even an obligation in the first place. But I love that you have this cadence. You have this Sunday notes check-in, cadence, where you assess the week before, the week ahead, and you remind yourself of some important lessons that you’ve learned along the way. I’d love to have you share more of it because I think it’s fantastic.

Asim Hafeez: So, as silly as this sounds, it’s old pen and paper. I take a little printer paper and I put the different parts of my life in boxes, whether it’s X company or one of them, literally, one of the boxes is labeled financial freedom. And it’s like, what are the things that I need to be reviewing or whatever? Sometimes, it’s literally like, that’s where reviewing deal flow to make sure I’m making time for it. For right now, it says high depreciating cash flow assets as a constant reminder, just says that on there. So, I’ve got different things in here, whether it’s rentals or the sales teams or Empower Energy, etc., and one of them is personal on my personal. It may have like admin financial things, like taxes. It’s nice to put that on there and just know, hey, look, what do I need to do to stay up with that? Or you don’t owe anyone anything. I have life by design written on there. I have 300-calorie deficit written on there. It’s like, hey, not a bad idea to stay healthy.

The other note I have on there is five regrets of the dying, easiest little notes for me. So, even when I’m looking at the week, it’s like, yes, there’s things that we want to do and have to do that. Some of these also put me in the right state of mind to keep record of all those things, right? The only entity that’s undefeated in this world is like Father Time, right? So, we’re all not going to be here at some point. And I think it’s good to remind ourselves of some of those things.

Justin Donald: I think that’s awesome. And by the way, those things have led you to an incredible life. Those keys, those success principles, those weekly reminders that I assume you probably even look at more than weekly, but at a minimum, weekly, right? You’re thinking through this.

Asim Hafeez: You might think this is nuts. I make it weekly. But this clipboard is my holy grail. It goes with me everywhere. If I’m in a car ride, it goes with me. If I’m in the plant, it stays in my backpack. So, it’s on my desk at all times because some of these are reminders, but a lot of the other things are like things that need to get done. So, there may be a business and there is like, what are the three biggest things this business needs? One of the questions I’ve tried to ask myself is if somebody’s acquired said business, what are the first three things they would do? Because they probably look at it from a lens if I acquire, and then here’s how we improve and increase feature valuation. So, those big things end up here.

So, at the very least, sometimes, I just get fog brained. I don’t know about everyone else, but sometimes I was like, I think I’m supposed to be doing something, I have time, I don’t know what exactly to do. And I just look at this thing. It gets me working on a really high value project instead of it just getting taken up by mundane, like email scrolling or whatever it is, just checking email for the sake of checking an email or doing it, a $10 an hour task or something like that, just because there’s nothing else to do. So, this thing stays with me at all times. I probably look at it 500 times a week. Zero exaggeration.

Justin Donald: So, that’s powerful. And that, right there, you have living life by design, but how do you ensure that you’re doing that? You’ve got the intentionality around bringing this important piece of paper that is going to help you instead of react to what’s going on, proactively create what you want, and you’ve done that. You have worked your way out of the rat race. You, like most people, were in the rat race and you were in the rat race at a high degree because you have had high paying jobs, careers, positions, but you were able to get out of it, and it took time. You were able to start a company, a solar company. I would love to hear some of your progression because today, if people looked at you from the outside and saw your life, they’d say, “Oh my gosh,” you seem you’ve got it made. You are traveling crazy. Your family is lovely. You’ve got everything you could ever want. You’ve got all the passive income that you need to live the life that you live, right? But how did you get there? Can you walk us back through what life was like before you had financial freedom?

Asim Hafeez: I’ll walk you way back. Come from not a lot, born in Pakistan, moved here when I was 10, and also, like family that was not well off, not to the 1% in Pakistan by any means. And I don’t say that as a negative. It’s just the reality of that. But came to the States, dad was a cab driver, worked his tail off, probably the hardest working person I’ve ever known in my entire life by far. But it was really interesting where even along the way, I had an amazing support system and a father that was always challenging my thought process. Like, he would say in his own, he’d be on funny little sayings, right? He would say, like, we’d look at a toothpick and he’d be like, “Never forget, somebody invented the toothpick and is making a ton of money on it,” right? But even like little things like that, you’re like, “Huh. That’s interesting.” Somebody did make a silly little toothpick and is probably a bazillionaire off of it, right?

And on the other hand, I had a mother that was ridiculously supportive. I had such a level of comfort where no matter what I did, if I failed in complete thought, just fell on my face big time, I just knew my mom would just be there for me. She’s like, “You’re amazing,” right? And it’s like, I think that dynamic worked out really well for me. So, I did that, I went to school. So, a lot of people I know, the reason we ended up moving from– we were in New York, we moved to Connecticut because my father was, when he was visiting Pakistan, he was in a rural area, and he got sick and they ended up using a used needle on him. A doctor did try to save some money or something. Obviously, he didn’t know, but he got hepatitis A, B, and C at the same time. And they were like, “You got six months to live.”

So, I remember those convos of like, dad teaching me how to balance checkbooks in elementary school, like, “Hey, if I’m not here in six months from now,” I’m like, “I don’t even know what any of this is,” right? It’s funny now, he made it. He’s got all that stuff. And I’m like, “Dude, I don’t even know what a checkbook is. This is not going to play out.” But everything worked out okay, and he recovered, thank goodness. He had like less than 2% chance. We moved to Connecticut, ended up doing high school here.

But I think some of those experiences also forced me to make sure that I was not just taking the normal path in college, etc., and ended up in a sales opportunity. And I think, there’s two things I love that I had, unlimited upside, which I wouldn’t have had if I had normal job hours, etc. And then, on the other hand, my parents were the biggest cheerleaders where they’re like, hey, I don’t know if they necessarily believe in premium knives by any means, but my parents always used to say, like, “Hey, I don’t want you working somewhere where you’re not going to learn anything,” right? So, they were like, “If you’re going to go work somewhere or are you going to make–” let’s say, the goal here is $10 an hour. Hey, if you’re going to make, even if somebody pays you 20, but you’re not learning anything, rather you not do that. Just go somewhere else where you’ll learn.

And so, I had some really key principles I was brought up with and I think there’s a lot, those things really set me up big time. My dad taught me so many things, used to say things like, you’re either going to be paid for your back or your brain, so just develop your brain because your back’s not going to be there for hours, like, you won’t be able to work hard forever. So, those things led me into staying in sales because there’s people who get into sales and maybe they don’t have the support system or whatever, made decent money. I really prided myself on being the hardest working in the room at all times. I don’t think I was the most talented. I think I just ended up becoming really good because the whole 10,000-hour rule or whatever, it’s like I just had so many more practice shots and maybe way more failures than a lot of people.

And then I invested that. We did some investments, whether it’s gas stations with family, and then over time, getting more rentals and other is getting into other constant investment vehicles. But Justin, I think along the way, what was probably really important was celebrating the small wins. I couldn’t even imagine in my wildest dreams that we’d be where we are right now. They’re investing journey. But even little things, like, I remember thinking early on, man, even if we can get $2,000 a month, if we get to $2,000 a month, then I’ll have this level of peace, where it’s like, at the very least, there’ll always be food on the table or cover cheap rent for 800 to 1,000 and at least cover food if everything goes to crap. And then I was like, well, I wonder, like, how about 2,500? Now, we’re at 2,000. How about 3– and I remember at one point thinking like, oh my gosh, if there’s only a way that I can get to $5,000 a month, life would be amazing, right? And then you get there and you’re like, oh, well, maybe I get to 7,500.

So, I’m only sharing these things because I think it’s really easy to say like, oh, well, you’ve got 800k or whatever a year of passive income. Now, that’s awesome, but that is such an overwhelming number or that’s not where it started for me. So, what started for me was work really hard, take the income, buy passive income. But also combine that with low enough expectations of like, how can I suppress my expenses down? And how can I slowly tick away? So, like, even if I could get to $2,000 a month expenses, somehow, I’d have $2,000 a month, I felt like I was financially free. I was like, worst case, everything goes to crap. I can move into a place like that, I know I’m covered. So, I think that along the way, early stages part is probably a little bit harder when you just see the big numbers.

But I think that’s really what allowed me to get there because once the things start snowballing, Justin, emotionally, it’s so easy, right? Like, anyone can do that. A lot of people can say like, oh, I went from 100 grand to 200, 200 to 300. I think it’s the first 1,000, 2,000, 3,000, 4,000 a month that like, that’s where you’re really tested because you probably have the least means that you’ve had. It’s new stuff. So, you’re probably nervous out of your mind because you’re like, what if it doesn’t work, right? So, at least that’s what worked for me along the way.

Justin Donald: Yeah. And early on, you may not have the skill set to vet it. So, maybe the nerves are really warranted. And if it goes wrong, it feels like the world has ended. When in all reality, it’s just one of the smaller investments that over time, you likely will make, right? But perspective so important. And I like that you share just these little steps. I mean, when you get to your survival income or an income that you can survive on that is passive income, it creates such freedom just in the time and space that you’re living in. I mean, it removes so much pressure. It removes so much stress because you know, no matter what, you and your family will be fine.

And for a lot of people listening, your jump may not be straight to $1,000 of passive income or $2,000. It might be $100 of passive income. And then you get to 150, and maybe you’re only covering a utility bill or two. And then over time, you get to covering all the utilities, you get to covering the car payments, you get to covering your mortgage or your rent. And it does add up over time. So, there needs to be some persistence, there needs to be some education around it. But you’ve really done a great job with it. And I like that you had this great idea, mindset, understanding around, “Hey, let’s reduce expenses as best we can. Let’s get the passive income one step at a time.”

But one of the things that you said that I loved was, “Let’s pretend that the active income doesn’t even exist because it could go away. My job, I could lose my job, or I could lose my business, it could go under, and all that could be washed away in a moment.” And I’d love to hear your thoughts on that.

Asim Hafeez: Yeah. Well, first of all, I think I graduated college around 2010, so I kind of saw buddies that had jobs lined up and major in finance and how that can go away like that. And everyone talks about the stability of W-2 until you get fired, maybe another job if there are some, but it’s really interesting. I don’t even know if I’ve realized this until this podcast, but I’m really wondering how much of that mentality came from me seeing my dad go through it because he had a consistent income, etc., etc., etc., and then I was like, here’s a bomb. You’ve got hep A, B, and C. You can’t work because you have to go through, now, it’s so easy to take these pills. But before, it was the equivalent of doing chemotherapy. That’s how tough it was. So, he couldn’t really work. So, it’s so interesting. I genuinely have not connected the dots until this podcast. Maybe that’s where it’s coming from.

But that could happen to any of us, right? Like, without, things just come up in life. So, the way I’ve tried to treat it, and obviously, you can’t treat it like that in the beginning when you have no cash well, but I’ve just told myself, like the money– so the way I’ve tried to say is you’ve got your offense and defense of money. So, your offense is how much you can generate. Your defense is how much you can keep your expenses down in the middle as your financial freedom coupons, right? And then there’s a whole, then there’s the offense of financial freedom and the defense of financial freedom. It’s like, how do you create it and how do you make sure you don’t lose money when you’re investing, right?

But the second category is where I wanted to live. The first category, even if I made half a million bucks, it was like, I saw people go crazy with their spending. And I was like, it doesn’t feel like forever income. So, I don’t, like, forget taking on forever expenses like a crazy high mortgage that, I don’t know, we all like to think things are going to be great forever, but it’s like the Warren Buffett thing, right? When things are good, people think they’ll never be bad. And when they’re bad, they think they’ll never be good. And if you just inverse that, you’ll go a long way. So, even when things were good, I caught myself asking myself, “Okay, what if we did have really hard times? Then what does it look like?” So, I think that was probably a really, really big part of it.

And Justin, it’s interesting you mentioned the whole like little bills thing. I remember doing an exercise, just I wanted small wins and I think I got that from Robin Sharma. He’s got like a small win theory that he talks about. So, I just wanted to feel like I was having wins even when I was investing just small amounts. So, I did all of my recurring bills from smallest to largest, just so I could tell myself I was covering more bills. So, the second I got $10 a month in passive income, I’m like, “Netflix is paid for forever. I’m amazing.” Like, the second I got to 70 bucks and I’m like, “Oh, I never have to worry about a phone bill ever again. It’s covered forever.”

So, I think, if you’re starting out or you’re in the younger stages, just to feel like you’re getting wins may not be a bad idea to go smallest to largest instead of like I want to cover my mortgage. To see an emotional momentum, I think it goes a long way for me, at least psychologically. So, it’s a marathon. So, you’re still like– so your head stays in the game long enough so you can be there for the big payoff.

Justin Donald: Yeah, no doubt. I mean I love that and I love that you celebrated even the $10 a month, the $9.99 subscription, although today, it’s even more than that, I think. But the point is still the same. It’s like, how do you tackle the small bills? How do you tackle the small obligations, if you will? And then you’re just having this positive momentum from there. You’ve talked about a lot of things that have gone well and how you’ve chipped away and how mindset has been really important. And thank goodness for having an incredible dad that, even though he may not have been as experienced as a businessman, he sure did teach you to think like one, which is really special and really rare.

But you did start a business. You started a solar company, and there were seasons where the solar company went really well. And I’d say the majority of the time for you, it seems like it has gone really, really well. It’s been a great season, a great economy for that business. Conversely, you’ve had a few times where you’ve been stiffed some pretty massive bills. And I think one or two of them to the tune of half $1 million. I’d love to have you talk about that and how you were able to resolve or rectify those situations.

Asim Hafeez: Yeah. So, what’s interesting is when I got into solar, I was considering doing something, and then I brought into a solar company as a CRO and helped them grow a ton, and obviously, that to give me certain tranches and bonuses, etc. And there came a time where they were like, “Hey, we’re having trouble making payroll.” And I was like, well, I’m not getting paid, but I also don’t want to see all these people not getting paid. At that point, I had some passive income, decent amount of passive income, at least where my bills were covered. So, I was like, all right, well, this and here’s a check for me to keep this thing afloat, to make sure all the sales reps and everyone gets paid.

A month later, it’s like, oh, you can’t pay them again. It’s like, well, this seems weird. And then a couple of months go by, and I’m the guy that’s maybe loyal to a fault, I don’t know, like I’m the optimist. It’s like the biggest strength and I guess the biggest weakness. And I’m like, oh, we’ll turn around, whatever, who cares? And I’ll be fine. Just don’t worry about paying me for now, right? Push came to shove, I looked at it, I was owed like half a million bucks. Everyone else is owed a bunch of money and the company had no way out. So, they’re going to be going under and with a company goes under, you’re not going to really recover those losses.

So, Empower, who’s the solar company, frankly, I don’t know if I had any aspirations of starting any company. So, let’s just make sure that’s loud and clear. It was purely because I was sitting there saying, “What do we do?” And I had a bunch of people that were like, “Hey, man, we follow you, we trust you, we’re loyal to you,” like all that stuff. “How do we pay our bills?” I’m glad you got your bills covered. “Well, how do we pay our bills? Do you have a way for us?” And I was like, like, “I don’t know. Let me think about it. Let me talk to legal,” and essentially, came out to like, all right, let me start this thing just so we can have a place where people can work here and they can count on them getting paid. For whatever reason, over the years, it created a decent reputation that I’ve never stiffed people, and I never would. So, for that reason, there’s a decent level of trust.

And we started the solar company. We started a sales order, selling another companies contracts, similar to how some insurance broker just do it. And then the installer, those who are paying us at one point, they owed us $600,000, $700,000. And I was like, what? And mind you, even in that transition, all the sales reps are owed money. I just wrote them checks out of my– put money into the business just to make them whole because I just felt so bad. They had families and lives and stuff. And then this other thing happens and I’m like, I’m still paying people. I know you said solar is a great industry. I get to tell you, on the build side of it, it’s one of the worst industries, one of the worst margin industries there is.

A lot of solar companies run on a 4% to 5% EBITDA margin, which is hideous in the construction world. So, the margin was super squeezed, especially when you have electricians and you got electrical licenses and building stuff happening, right? So, for that reason, the industry actually over the last two years, has lost like 30% to 40%, the companies have gone out of business. So, it’s really tight margins as it is. Let alone now, you’ve got like, I got no margins and then we’re out another 600,000, 700,000. We file a lawsuit. We win a judgment. The company files bankruptcy. Doesn’t really sting the first time it happens, but you start questioning your soul. After the second time it happens within 12 months, you’re like, what in the world?

And I love my wife. She’s amazing. And she’s literally looking at me, like, hey, you just keep pouring money into stuff. If you just use the time just to sell, you could probably make more money and have way less headache. And it’s like, I get it completely. And that’s probably what I would do if I didn’t have all these people looking up to me saying, “Hey, what do we do?” Yeah, so we work through that. We got to a point where we just said, “Hey, we’re going to control all the financials and have direct relationships with financiers,” etc., which is a massive uplift.

But ever since we control the money, we have, thank God, had very little issues or we’re having the same issues that everyone else name should be having. And I have people call me all the time. They’re like, “Oh my God, we’re going to get some really crazy headwinds.” And I’m like, “Dude, these headwinds are a joke. At least I know I’m getting paid. What are you talking about headwinds?” It’s harder to get customers, like, okay, big deal, like, equipment pricing went up. So, the running joke in the industry is whenever my distributor calls me, I say, I don’t mind obstacles. I actually love them because as long as they’re for everyone, if they’re for the entire industry, I feel like we’re way better equipped than everyone else to handle them. So, we’ll pick up even more market share.

But that’s kind of where we’ve been on that and we’re doing well now and everyone gets paid and all that stuff. And it’s really cool to see a lot of our people now going down the same pathway that I did where they made good money in sales. And now, they’re using that to invest. And a lot of them have aspirations of getting to six figures and passive cash flow. And a lot of them are well in their way. They all have their job optional number. And they’re on their own path for three to five years to getting to job optional. And I joke with them or I’m like, hey, solar is what you might call it, but I really feel like my passion is helping people get to job optional. Solar is just an amazing pathway for me to be able to help them get there because our pay scales are aggressive and we’re okay with the lower EBITDA margins in our end. And that’s purely because of the other cash flow coming into my life.

Justin Donald: Oh, I love that, and I love that you are not afraid to teach your people how they can make a job obsolete. I think that is so cool. I think too many founders, so many founders, or executives are afraid to have their people leave. So, they’re afraid to educate them, to teach them about the finances and passive income. And I love that you’re doing that. And I love that you supported them even when you didn’t know what was going to happen because you cared and you had established relationships with these people.

And by the way, no surprise, whatsoever, they’re incredibly loyal to you, and you guys have done really well, and they’re willing to go to vet for you in tough times because you went to vet for them. I think that’s so cool. We definitely should get into some of the passive income. But before we do, you utilize a very unique strategy. I’ve had another person on the call, actually, two other people on the call that have moved to Puerto Rico that have taken advantage of Acts 20 and 22, which have been renamed. I know they’re not the same name anymore, but in a way, that was able to offset your taxable income. And I’d love to hear your experience there. I know you’re back in Connecticut now, but for a while, I visited you in Puerto Rico. So, I saw you and your wife, and this is before you had had your son and it was cool seeing the life that you had built there. And I know that you were eager also to come back, to put in your time and to come back.

Asim Hafeez: Yeah. So, it’s really interesting with some of the gas stations, etc., we had some significant liquidity events that were around the corner. And I think part of it is having that support where it’s like, I have an idea. I can see being in relationships, etc., I was going to be like, no, that’s crazy. And lucky to have a wife who’s like– it sounds crazy, but that sounds like going to see my idea, you know what I mean? And she supports that. I think it was a unique timing for us where I think COVID was at its peak. This is before the vaccine, I believe.

So, COVID is peak. Everyone’s working remote as it is. We knew we had– and obviously, valuation, the businesses were going through the roof at that point. Because people are looking for other ways to make income, there’s significant inflation of businesses being purchased, etc., happening at that time. So, we had some big cap gains events coming up that we knew of and we’re just like, you were working from home, anyways. At the time, it was just like, let’s just do one year. This seems like everyone’s going to be working from home for the foreseeable future anyways. So, for Connecticut, it was 10 degrees or something when we made that decision. In Puerto Rico, it’s 73 degrees.

So, it started by, hey, let’s just go there to check it out to see if it didn’t feel safe enough because to me, that was a top priority. If at the end of the day we didn’t feel safe, then it’s that what’s the point of feeling like you’re in a complete prison, right? And we checked out some areas of Puerto Rico that we were like, “I don’t think we could stay here.” We ended up in a community. There was like, this is amazing. This is perfect. So, for us, it was just, let’s just do one year at a time and reevaluate.

We did our first year in Puerto Rico. And everyone is still pretty much working remote. And then, halfway through our second year or maybe within that second year, Nicole is pregnant. And then we had our son. I clearly remember, Justin, the second year one, within four or five days of that, I was like, I’m not doing public anymore. I think we’re not doing it because there are so many little moments in life you miss out on and you’re like, I don’t know how many moments he’s going to go with grandparents. I don’t know how many little moments we’re missing out on. And I also like, I love my time in Puerto Rico. It’s beautiful. And we have beautiful waterfront condo that’s from absolutely my dream beach house. If somebody was to say something of what I would have– again, list of things that you never think that you’re going to have in your future when you’re living in Brooklyn and just moved here from Pakistan, right? You’re like, oh my gosh, that’s what like the Hilton Tower or something, not that it’s anything in scale with Paris Hilton, but I’m just saying for me, that’s how far I felt at the time.

So, I remember having that thought. And I talked to our legal team. They’re like, “You have to do a minimum of three years.” And that’s how we ended up at the three-year mark. But I had a great experience there, loved my time there. I loved the weather there, and the winter is absolutely gorgeous. And the inverse of that, it’s a similar conversation, what we’ve had before, where it’s also, if the whole point of making money is to have freedom, and then you feel like you have to do a certain number of days, I think there’s just something about entrepreneurs that just like, I don’t want anyone telling me how I have to live my life. So, in that regard, like counting the days and all that stuff, I was like, this is done. I mean, we just have to– let’s figure out different ways to have different tax strategies moving forward. And for that, frankly, super grateful for being part of Lifestyle Investor personally because I feel like you have really good tax strategies now with a couple of people that you introduced our way and we feel like now we can have the best of both worlds.

Justin Donald: I love it. Well, you got a chance to move to Puerto Rico to take advantage of some nice tax situations for the huge capital gains you had. But what’s cool is if you do the right type of tax strategy and you have the right team, you can do that without needing to move to Puerto Rico. And this was my wife’s big argument or…

Asim Hafeez: Justin, I was trying to get you to move down there. I was just like, “Who do I like? Let’s just get everyone here.” And I maybe was purely selfish. So, I’ll go make the days go by faster if there’s more people I love here.

Justin Donald: My wife’s funny, though. She’s smart. She gives the objections that are really hard to handle. She’ll use my own stuff against me. She’ll say, “Hey, Justin, don’t you talk about being in a position of choice and creating financial freedom so you don’t have to do anything? So, why do you have to move to Puerto Rico then? And why would you have to be there for three years? I thought, you are building this life so that we had optionality and we could choose to live wherever we wanted.” That’s my wife’s argument to me. So, we never ended up moving. And it all worked out great, but it’s really fun and funny and interesting when your wife uses your own stuff against you. And it’s really good, legitimate point. I’m like, “Okay, touché, you’re right.”

Asim Hafeez: Totally. And I think it’s one of those where it’s like there’s nothing wrong resonating and I think a lot of people, when they go into it, I think as entrepreneurs, for a lot of people, just the concept of inefficiency just drives us insane. So, it’s like, well, if there’s something better, why wouldn’t we, right? But it just goes back to at some point, like those, what’s more valuable, the moments with people that we may never have again or the dollars that we can fit more of? And I think at some point, we all get to the other side of it.

But for us, I think we lucked out. But for us, it was mainly during COVID. And at that point, I don’t think I missed out on all that much at all. So, I think it was just a very unique opportunity, but again, an opportunity that, I don’t know if I would have been introduced to without the introduction that you made when we were coaching back for like, what’s the lifetime value of one coaching call or one introduction or putting yourself in a position to have time with people whose time is really valuable. I jokingly told some of my guys because they’ve asked me about coaching and I’m like, “Listen, if you want a cheap coach, the reality is, like, they’re probably not a very good coach. But if you want somebody to get you to where you want to be, then they’re probably really successful in their time. It’s worth a lot.”

So, I even remember when we did the coaching, I was like, “Justin, what does it take?” Because I was just sitting there like, “Here’s the budget. Here’s what I could do.” But I was like, “Dude, you condensed the time you gave me. You can call me during your walks, whatever.” Because I also knew, I was like, “This guy is job optional, so he does not have to take my calls,” Like, him taking a call with me, even if he charges me X amount, even if you charge me 10 grand for the hour, the reality is, with your passive income, you have an infinite return on your time. So, even 10,000 doesn’t match up to it, right? So, that’s why I was like, “Bro, call me. If you’re walking, I’ll take those calls.” Like, just double dip on your time, whatever, right? But we had a unique opportunity popped up with COVID, but also, like, had invested in the right network and the coaching where I was like, “Hey, here’s one way you can capitalize on this with a few different things coming together.”

Justin Donald: Well, it’s great that we had the time that we had because, I mean, the truth is, I don’t coach hardly ever at all anymore because I think the value of the mastermind just dwarfs one-on-one coaching. You move from an old archaic bank like system where you have a central bank that has to approve everything that these other banks want to a blockchain system where you have easy access to any member at any time collectively and individually. And so, to me, that’s where you’re really accelerating growth and accelerating everything. So, once the Lifestyle Investor rolled out, I really scaled back coaching to virtually nonexistent.

But it’s really fun because you’ve been one of our earliest members, an OG in the community. You were part of the community before it was officially even named what it was named, which is fun. And so, I’d love to hear some of your thoughts and perspective around the value that you’ve gained, why you’re still here, why you keep renewing, why it’s been able to, and in your case, I feel like there’s been a lot of mindset shifts from scarcity, which you and I both had programmed into us a bit from our parents, to abundance in living a different life and living one that is very thriving and very full of epic experiences.

Asim Hafeez: Yeah, I think, Justin, the reality is we’ve all heard the whole ad as if you’re the average of the five people you hang out with the most, right? But if you’re in the 1% or you’re aspiring to get into the 1%, but I mean, 99 out of 100 people around you are the wrong people. So, one of the things I remember thinking is even if somebody just plucked out the one percenters and they said, “Hey, if you had a group of one percenters or people that are aspiring to,” or I mean, gosh, if people like me or the well beyond the 1%, right? So, we’re like, hey, I could put them all in one room for you to be– I’ll ask them questions. We will hang out with them in a two-day event like, yes, the content is amazing, but just being around them, is that worth it? I would say absolutely. What does it take, right? So, that’s my mentality is, it would be so much work for me to actively network into the one percenters. That’s also such an awkward question. Like, what do you ask somebody like, hey dude, what’s your net worth? I’m trying to figure out.

If you want to hang out with, but indirectly through your filtration, you’ve kind of done that for us, I think just that goes a long way. And then, what also helps is being able to have access to these people. And then we can ask them things like, hey, who do you use your work for your accounting? What do you think of a whole life policy? What are your thoughts on this whole life policy versus this Guardian whole life policy? And you get feedback from people that are farther ahead of you and people that are working with people that are three, four, five, ten steps ahead of you, which also gives you confidence of like, yes, back to what I said earlier, the offensive lifestyle investing and then the defense, at some point, you got to start also thinking about how do you protect your assets because the more money you’ve got, the bigger target you got in your back, right? And it’s like, Justin, these are not the questions that I’ve seen. Coming from Pakistan, I was thinking, it’s like, how am I going to protect wealth, right? It’s like, I don’t even make money. So, these are questions that I’ve never had to ask myself.

So, being able to talk to people, the guy goes such a long way. For me, just the network alone is amazing. Me being able to reach out in the group and saying, hey, does anyone have recommendations for blank? That alone will go a long way. And I think some of these things, if somebody is a high-net-worth person, high-income person, gosh, even a 1% reduction in taxes, I think it pays for itself if you’re making enough money or a 1% bump in revenue, like the percentages gain gets insane, especially if somebody is hired or they’re aspiring to get there so they can talk to people in the community. It’s amazing because everyone’s friendly. There’s very little arrogance for the level of a resume at the last event. I think I was just talking to somebody for a couple hours, right? And then I later found out his accomplishments. And I was like, Holy crud! He was just so casual. And we were just sitting there, chopping it up in Austin. It was great. And I was like, if I had to pay for that time, it would have been more than what my entire membership was for the year.

Justin Donald: Yeah. It’s hysterical is when we have people all the time that they talk to the community. They’re like, gosh, these people are so down to earth. I learned so much, and I’m just cracking up because they have no clue that the people they’re talking to are nine-figure guys and nine-figure women and that they have this life and business experience that is often just light years ahead of the general population, but you never know it in the way that they show up because of their humility, which is cool.

Asim Hafeez: I think, Justin, sometimes, like being around those people, they’ve often gone through their own version of adversities, just like you have or I have or whoever has, just in their own category, in their own field, right? And it’s like sometimes just being around those people helps you solidify your beliefs. Like, when I’m going through those adversities or the big hits that we talked about, one of the concepts that kept me going through it is I kept telling myself, this is the moat to success. This is why most people can’t. This is why most people are going to give up. This is where most people give up that I keep going, right? Or this is why most people will try and fail and this is where they’ll give up, and I don’t. Because now, in a weird way, one of the things I kept telling myself, well, I’ve already paid the price. So, like, might as well get value now. I’ve already paid the price, it can’t get worse. I might as well use this lesson to make the next iteration safer, better, etc.

But when we talk to these people, that’s for me also what solidifies like, oh, it is okay. They also go through failure, but they just stuck through it and they learn from those lessons and implemented. Hence, they will get to the other side of it. And then we don’t meet people like get to the other side of things. Sometimes it’s hard to keep going because most of our surroundings might be people that face adversity. Things didn’t go well, and they packed up shop.

Justin Donald: Yeah, 100%. And one of the greatest compliments I’ve gotten about our community is, I’ve had several people say, something to the gist of this one person specifically say, almost exactly this verbatim, that they join all these communities and they have to kind of wade through tons of people to find the ones that resonate or the ones that are kind of at the level that they want to be at in certain aspects of their life. But joining Lifestyle Investor, they’re recognizing that it’s a 100% across the board, like anyone they talk to is who they want to be talking to. And I think that that’s cool. I mean, that’s where you can really tap into that 1% that can give you that lifetime value like you’re talking about. That one relationship changes the game. One mindset shift changes the game. One tax strategy doesn’t just change the game that year, it changes the game every single year you use it and…

Asim Hafeez: And Justin, we compound it. If you save 10% on taxes and you run the math on the same money, put it in the S&P 500, what does that mean over 50 years? You’re like, dude, that’s 10% savings in tax as a future 5 million bucks. It’s like, why are we sitting here nickel diming a good community. Not happening, right? They’re like, come on. But again, I think it comes from that lifetime value concept.

Justin Donald: Totally. And one of the things that I love is how you’ve applied this abundance in your life. You’ve applied– because for me, I don’t feel like I need more toys and materialistic things, like, I don’t need possessions, but what I crave are experiences in relationships and experiences with the people that matter most, especially doing things that I know that they could never do for themselves. And so, that to me is really cool.

And you just did something like this with your family. And I know your family’s probably a lot like mine, where early on the vacations, if there even were vacations, were very minimal, super conservative from a financial standpoint. But what’s cool, like I’ve seen you do this and I’ve seen many other members do this where they kind of uplevel their game, and their abundance, the way that they look, the way that they live based on the cash flow that they’ve been able to produce. And you posted something in our community that just made me smile so big. And it was this recent trip that you took with your family to Dubai and just how epic of a trip it was and the pictures and the experiences. And I’d love for you to just share maybe some of the way that you look at having the passive income to do incredible things like this.

Asim Hafeez: Yeah. And I think you did it all and how it is able to do it after build up passive income, I’m definitely seeing people try to do stuff before and then they just flow their money. There’s a way to do some of these things on a budget while you’re doing that, for sure. But yeah, I think part of me is lifetime value concept, right? Same thing applied to my parents. Not just my dad, but also my mom. I think it’s been such an amazing combination of just knowing that even if I could fall in my face completely in my head and I might have made this up, I might have been thinking, oh, I might disappoint my dad, but I was like, mom is going to be there for the big old hug, telling me how amazing I am regardless, right? And I think there’s something really neat about that. So, she’s been there. Amazing, amazing, amazing for me and my self-confidence and knowing they all the support.

Yeah, we did a trip to Dubai and I was able to take my siblings, my wife, my son, and my parents. So, we all went down there. We got a really cool Airbnb because we wanted to experience a lot of Dubai. For people that have been, they kind of know that there’s stuff in towards the cities where everything is, got a chance to take my mom. She’s very religious. I get a chance to take her to the coolest mosque I’ve ever been, which is the Grand Mosque in Abu Dhabi. And she loved that experience. And we’re able to do all kinds of cool things. We did Miracle Garden. We got our own little private tour guide, guy with a van that was just ours for the entire week. So, we just go wherever we wanted, whenever we wanted type of thing. And that was awesome.

Just Dubai plug, the garden in Dubai, I think it’s called Miracle Garden, one of the best things to go to. Museum of the Future, also very cool, but I’m telling you there’s nothing like that garden that you ever experience. So, we do all that. And then we also booked another week or so at Atlantis with different rooms, which frankly, wasn’t even like as much fun because my family’s like huddling together in Airbnbs and stuff, but it was more like, I know my parents and they’re doing well now, so let’s not get it twisted. It’s not like they’re not doing well. They’re not doing bad by any means, but I still know the way they’re conditioned, they just would not splurge on themselves even if they can. So, it’s just like watching them have those experiences.

I remember signing up for every excursion we could find and paying for the pictures after, even though we’re getting ripped off and like, we’re getting all the pictures, we’re not doing this crazy thing. We’re like, oh, this guy’s charging $300 for pictures. So, we had an amazing time. And then my siblings, being able to be there, just like those little moments I think are so special. And the point wasn’t the dollars. I think the point was just continuing to have those little moments and memories because there’s things that we’re able to do today that we may not be able to do in the future, whether it’s because of health reasons of loved ones, whether it’s because circumstances change. This happened to be perfect timing where my siblings could get time, my parents could get time. It’s not like we wouldn’t have been able to do the same trip a year early because our kiddo would have been too young. So, they’re just those moments you’re like, let’s capitalize on and while we have them.

One of the questions that you’d catch asking myself a lot and we do this together and my wife is what are the things we get to do right now or over the next three to four years that we might not ever get a chance to do again. And there’s things on there like, if you really want to snorkel the Great Barrier Reef, I don’t, can’t even swim. But if she wants to, it’s like, do it now while it’s still there because it’s slowly eroding away, right? So, what are those things on your list? And then that’s a superficial level, the Great Barrier Reef. But like, who are the people in our lives that are here right now that there’s no guarantee they’re going to be there or a lower and lower probability every year that goes by that they may be there in the future that we could do those things with?

So, for me, I take the passive income. For me, it’s put 33% aside for taxes. Not that I want to pay that kind of taxes, but I’d rather put it away and then have a lower bill and invest more, right? 33% for taxes, 33% for lifestyle, and then 33% for reinvesting. So, even if I stopped today, the snowball will just get bigger and bigger and bigger. But out of that 33%, I put aside almost like 10% towards experiences with others, like loved ones. And I think that’s my way of giving back for like, hey, yeah, parents did sacrifice a lot. And not trying to sound socialist at all here, but I do think there’s a level of success where once it snowballs, you almost look back and you’re like, this is way too easy. Once you unlock it, you’re like, the rewards almost feel disproportionate. So, I want to make sure I get a chance to bring other people along the way to experience this stuff, instead of just like a mini me, because I think there is a level of like our communities, our loved ones, people that were there for us when they didn’t know all these cool things are going to happen. Are we going back and rewarding them?

So, I did another cool thing, I think, recently. So, my dad is a massive cricket fan, a huge cricket fan, grew playing cricket. It’s just a Pakistan thing. I watch it a decent amount too. He’s never been to an international game, ever. Never been to a crazy game. So, we just talk about things lining up. I just saw tickets go on sale. It just so happens that the World Cup of Cricket is happening in the US this summer. And one of the games, the biggest game in the cricketing world is Pakistan versus India. It’s just a massive rivalry that happens, let alone a World Cup game for Pakistan-India. I was like, this is happening and they’re going to have that game in the US. So, I was like, I’m buying these tickets, right?

And I called up mom. I was like, “Mom, do you feel like going to a cricket game?” She’s like, “Sure.” I’m like, “Okay, booked that.” Called up my siblings, like, “Do you feel like going to cricket game on this date?” They’re like, “Sure.” They have no idea how much the frigging tickets were, but I bought all these tickets. And I’m like, “Cool, we’re going to this World Cup of Cricket,” which is amazing experience. And of the summer, we’re going to go India, Pakistan. We’re going to go to that game. I don’t really care who wins. It’s just like, that’s going to be such a cool experience for them.

But also like for me, that’s something I wouldn’t do. Nicole likes it, but it’s going to be a cool experience for her. The funniest part though was my dad was like, “So how much did you pay for those tickets?” Like, a couple days later, oh, I was like, I forgot. It was 2,500, 3,000 bucks. And he’s like, “For all of them, right?” And I was like, “No, for each.” And he goes, “Oh, that’s such a rip-off. If I knew that, I wouldn’t have– we can just have people over our house.” And my mom finds out, she’s like, “I don’t even like cricket. I just said yes because I thought they were cheap tickets.” She’s like, “I don’t even know what’s happening half the time,” right? My siblings don’t really know it, but it’s not about that. It’s like, yeah, it’s going to cost whatever 18, 20 grand or something, but we’re going to have just such a fun experience for the rest of our lives.

And for me, as long as it fits within that, like 10% set aside, it doesn’t matter. I get to do whatever I want with it. And frankly, if I don’t, then I’m falling into the grief trap of like just more, more, more, more, more of like just having a higher net worth and chasing a bigger number and that’s not something I’ve ever wanted. But I think that concept of just not chasing a bigger number all the time has also been really like big time, hit hard, being part of the community, where you see people like actually living an amazing life and not just being worth a billion bucks. And I know some people aspire to that and I have nothing wrong with it. It’s just, my goal is not to be a billionaire. As we’ve talked about, my goal is to be a time billionaire and actually living that part out because when you don’t, then you just look like a liar to everyone, that you convince that you’re making sacrifices, whether it’s your wife or your loved ones, like, oh, I’m sacrificing now so we can. And then when you can, you just start chasing something else where you’re not enjoying at least a percentage along the way. It’s just people start calling your phone when you do that or start thinking at least what they tell you to your face or not.

Justin Donald: Well, Asim, that is such a beautiful story and such a great depiction of living life fully, being a lifestyle investor, treating loved ones to epic experiences and getting that quality time. I just love it. And I love seeing so many people in our ecosystem, in the mastermind community that are doing the same thing or similar things where they’re saying, “Hey, let’s put some lifestyle first here, let’s put some relationships first, and let’s live in this world of abundance and generosity.” So, I love that. I think you’re a great example, a great role model to so many. For those that want to learn more about you or see what you’re up to, where can they find you?

Asim Hafeez: That would probably be Instagram, asim_360_. That’s probably the best way. Or if you’re in the community, you’ve got the contact. Outside the community, that’s probably the best place to connect, I would say. And we can take it from there if there’s a good conversation we had, for sure.

Justin Donald: I love it. Well, this was such a fun episode. I love doing podcast interviews, first and foremost, with my friends, secondly, with mastermind members, third with entrepreneurs and investors, and fourth, just people that are living life on their terms with great hacks, with great strategies, with just really cool stories. And you’re doing exactly that. So, thanks so much.

I like wrapping up every episode with a question to our audience. So, if you’re tuning in here, if you’re watching this, if you’re listening to this, my question for you is simple. It’s the same one I ask every week. What’s one step you can take today to move towards financial freedom and move towards living a life that you truly desire, that’s on your terms? So, it’s not life by default, like most people live, but life by design. And what’s something that you can take away from Asim’s time and tips and thoughts and lifestyle that you can easily and quickly implement and plug into your life to move into that one step towards financial freedom? Thanks for tuning in. And we’ll catch you next week.

Asim Hafeez: Thanks, Justin.