The Mindset Shift That Unlocks True Wealth and Freedom with Pablo Della – EP 277

Justin Donald: All right. Pablo, I've got to ask you this question. I'm going to get out of order a little bit here because we're going to fast forward to you having a lot more success, a tremendous amount of success as an entrepreneur. And I love that you had a buddy that kind of rescued you from the mindset you were in and from the small world, small thinking that you had, and took you to Spain. You didn't have the money. You found a way to get there, and he helped pave that path for you. And you returned that favor to a bunch of your friends, as I recall, some friends from Buenos Aires that really just barely making ends meet. And you kind of whisked them away for a summer or an experience, and you covered their travel and gave them the ability to experience life at a bigger level. And I'd love for you to share that.

Pablo Della: Yeah, everything started in 2018. So, as many of you may know, Argentina, the number one sport is football, what you guys call soccer.

Justin Donald: Yep.

Pablo Della: Every single kid, or almost every single kid, we want to be football players, we want to be football players, and we want to watch Argentina play in the World Cup, and we want Argentina to win the World Cup. And we all grew up with Maradona as the big star, which maybe the youngest right now don't really understand who was Maradona. Maradona for us was like the idol. We always wanted to win a World Cup. I mean, Argentina won the World Cup in ‘86. I was two years old. I don't remember anything. So, every World Cup was kind of a frustration. And I think it was the World Cup of Germany 2006, if I'm not mistaken. A friend of mine went, and he was describing me the World Cup. I was like, "Holy sh*t, I need to go there.”

I need to somehow, again, this is no money, nothing, right? I'm like, somehow I need to go there. Well, fast forward, I start making some money. My business is going great, and 2018, it's happening, and it's the World Cup in Russia. I say, "Let's go.” I'm trying to convince my friends. My friends are like, "Dude, no, it's impossible. I cannot take 30 days,” because I wanted to go the whole month, period.

Justin Donald: Well, and that's you. That's you to a T, Pablo. You want it all. You are all in, and you don't want any shortcuts. You want the full experience. So, I love it, and I love that, like for your friends, you're saying, "No, no, no. We're doing all this.”

Pablo Della: And all of them, they're like, "No, no, no, no, no.” And then I realized, okay, I am literally in a Tony Robbins event, and we are going through a lot of exercises. It's a lot of mindset exercises. And then I realized, "Oh, I have the possibility today to lock this experience and to make it happen. The only thing that I need to do is to pay for it.” So, there was my best friend, which coincidentally or maybe not, is the same friend that invited me to Spain. I was not doing this like, "Oh, he invited me to Spain, therefore now I'm going.” He's just my best friend. So, I called my assistant and said like, “Hey, just buy all the tickets. Buy the tickets for Argentina, for all the games. We are going to go.”

And I recorded a video to my friend that I was just walking in Sun Valley, Idaho. It was all snowing, and I'm like, “Hey, dude, we are going.” So, I explained in Spanish whether we are going, and then he responded, he's like, “I just cannot stop watching this video.”

Justin Donald: That's so cool.

Pablo Della: So, we went there for 30 days. We had the time of our lives. We did not win that World Cup, but we had an incredible time. And in fact, I end up meeting who today is my wife, the last day of the World Cup. So, that was an incredible experience. And then in 2022 in Qatar, I also did the same thing, and that one we wanted. So, that was an incredible experience. But talking about my friends, because we had that incredible experience in 2018, then Argentina played in 2022, 2021. I can't remember. 2021, I think in London, in Wembley, we play against Italy, and that's when I spoke with all my friends to like, “Hey, guys. I'm taking care of this. Let's go. Let's do it.” And we had one week in London, and it was an incredible experience.

By the way, I want to share a hack that I implemented that I think is spectacular. So, usually, when we go for lunch, for dinner, we are with friends, what happens is that at some point, maybe the conversation, whatever, gets boring, and then we just have this sh*t, right? And we just get into the phone, and then we get distracted. So, what I said to them is like, "Guys, one single rule, all the phones facing down, one on top of each other, in the middle of the table. If anyone touches the phone, that person pays the bill. If nobody touches the phone, I pay the bill.”

Justin Donald: That's so good. What a hack.

Pablo Della: So, what do you think happened?

Justin Donald: Well, I would imagine they didn't touch the phone, and you ended up paying the bill.

Pablo Della: I mean, I took the phone and I was so happy to pay the bill. And we had such an incredible experience because we were totally connected all the time. There were no distractions. That was a beautiful hack that still today I am implementing when I am with friends that they can't afford it. Of course, it gets even more feisty because nobody wants to lose. It's not about paying. It's like we don't want to lose.

Justin Donald: That's right. Oh, that's awesome. Well, I just love that you're paving the way for your friends to have these experiences, experiences they will likely never have themselves. I always talk about the reason that we make it and we make it big, not necessarily the reason, but the opportunities we get when we do that, I think should be around friends and family, and creating magic moments and epic experiences. And doing for them, people that are important in your life, doing for them things that they would never do for themselves, even if they can afford it, but they just can't bring themselves to spend their money that way. I just love that you're helping your friends do that, and that's always a goal. And an intention for me is the same thing, helping create these amazing experiences and moments with those that we love the most. Well done.

Pablo Della: Thank you. And coming back to that story of Russia, so my friend, his biggest takeaway, because this was his biggest concern, is like, “I need to work, I need to be physically in Buenos Aires,” and I am, "No, you don't. Trust me, I will teach you how to work online. You are going to be fine.” And that whole experience, because we were literally sitting down from the morning until noon, and we were working, and then we went to have fun to watch the games and so on. And so, he says that he learned so much, seeing how I was working and how I was managing things, and I was helping him a lot. And that was a massive breakthrough where he says, “I want to live this kind of life.”

Justin Donald: Yeah, that's awesome. And I like to live life with the 10-year rule, which is if you have work or something important going on, that's a conflict, but you have this great opportunity, and you're unsure if you should do it, ten years from now, think back and see which one you will remember because you likely won't remember the work. You likely won't remember this important thing that you had to do and had to get done, but you'll remember that trip and that experience and the people you were with in the magic moments that are going to be probably a constant commercial in your mind that make you smile every time you think about it.

Pablo Della: That is so funny that you say that, because I use the same tactic to convince my friends. I literally say, "If you come to this trip, you will, for the rest of your life, remember what we did in June and July 2018. If you don't come, you will never remember what you did in those months.”

Justin Donald: A hundred percent. Well, I'd love to talk about kind of like your rise to success. You started a company, you started a brand, started selling a health and wellness product online that really became a household name. It became one of the top brands out there, one of the top supplements, and this is international. Certainly, it's big here, but you've built it into an international brand. And I know you do a ton of business inside the US and via Amazon, but I'd love to talk about, like, how you even got into this space, how you grew it. Because in the beginning, it wasn't booming, but you eventually became like the number one resource in the category, or several categories you're in.

Pablo Della: Well, you're making me blush, and I think that you're giving me too much credit, to be honest with you. But okay, thank you. I take it. I think that I need to go back a little bit, because I think that everything started with me collecting football T-shirts. So, this is Argentinian sports teams' football T-shirts, and then realizing that if I bought those in bulk, I could resell them and make some money. All this is at the same time that I have my office job, university, commuting, and all that sh*t, right?

Justin Donald: Yeah, you're busy.

Pablo Della: But I realized, oh, I can make some money here, because I really wanted to make money, and we can get into the psychology of that was the case, because that is also important. So, I started in early commerce, very, very early commerce, because I said, “Where do I sell this?” I sell them in what is called Mercado Libre, or De Remate, which is two websites, kind of like eBay in South America and Argentina. And people were like, “What are you doing? Just selling things like what online? What is that type of thing?” This is, I would say, 2003, 2004, or 2005. This is very early, very, very early. And that's when I, now I understand, but because I’ve done that for 10 years, and this is like a side hustle, I never understood what a side hustle was.

For me was like, I don't know, I do this. I do this thing at the same time that I'm doing other things. And that's when I learned how to negotiate, how to source products, how the supply chain works, how should I position my pictures better than the competition. What about the pricing? How do I put the best things in the title to attract the most amount of traffic, to attract those clicks? So, I had a very good knowledge of how to sell online.

Justin Donald: That's great. Well, in differentiation as well, like at the highest level, not just differentiated product, but differentiated processes, right? I mean, this is fantastic.

Pablo Della: The only challenge with that is that I had to go and deliver the products myself. So, we had to go out meeting in a McDonald's or in a public plaza, so I don't get killed. And I exchanged the t-shirt for cash, and then eventually I go to the post office with the packages. And this is, it's like, I think that in 10 years, maybe I sold 800 products, right? They're like hand-delivered, never considered that this was my job, or that this was a business. This is also a very interesting thing, because in Argentina, maybe now, yes, but back in the day, the whole thing of entrepreneur didn't really exist. If you're running a successful business in Argentina, most likely you are doing dodgy things with the government.

Justin Donald: Yeah. Well, and I think, I mean, globally, I hear this from my friends, from tons of different countries, that entrepreneur is not a thing, and those that were, there's no pride in it, like it's almost like frowned upon, or like your peers may look poorly on that, or that you're taking advantage of people. In the US, it is a badge of honor to say, “I'm an entrepreneur. I founded a company. I co-founded a company.” But I think those of us listening here in the US, we forget or we don't even know in the first place that this isn't a thing in a lot of countries. And it's just not a cultural norm, and it's not a cultural win.

Pablo Della: Yeah, I think that's because there is a lot of corruption with governments, and that's the only way to really make it to the top, is you need to somehow make those kinds of agreements. So, coming back to your question, when I moved to the US in 2014, I just couldn't believe Amazon. To me, that was crazy. So, a couple of things that…

Justin Donald: Wait a minute, you don't have to deliver in hand. You don't have to do all this yourself. There's a third party that actually fulfills.

Pablo Della: Even more than that. So, I couldn't believe that I can buy something, and in two days it arrives. And listen to this, nobody's stealing my package. I couldn't believe that. Now, I know that things are changing, and now your package may get robbed. That's bad.

Justin Donald: But now they also, in subsidies, arrive in an hour to two hours. I order stuff all the time that arrives literally in a two-hour window, sometimes within one hour of clicking.

Pablo Della: So, I couldn't believe that part. I was like, “Holy sh*t, this is incredible.” But then another thing that was incredible is that anything that I wanted, I'm like, “Oh, it would be cool if blah, blah, blah,” and, "Oh, it already exists. They’re already selling this.” So, my whole entrepreneurial spirit was like, "Welcome back home. Yes, this is your place.” And, literally, I'm walking, I couldn't believe anything, right? I’m walking down supermarkets, and I just couldn't believe the dimension of the supermarkets. Like in Argentina, you have like, maybe one or two mayonnaise brands. Here you have, like, 27. I'm like, "Holy sh*t. What's going on here?” I couldn't understand the prices, but I was just so fascinated. And one day, well, I did not get to this part of the story, but in 2008, I said, “I need to make a change. I don't know what's the change.”

I went and I took a yoga class. 2008, that is a very long time ago. This is like if you were doing yoga in the 60s in the US, right? Nobody's really doing it. You have to be kind of woo-woo if you are doing it. So, I took a class in Argentina, and I had the most incredible experience. And that day, I said, this is exactly what I want to do. I want to quit my office job. I want to do yoga for myself, maybe hopefully, I can also share with others, and I want to travel the world. And that's when I made that decision, 2008 executed in 2009, and that's what started the path of freedom, because I was able to control my calendar. I was able to become a student. In that moment, I was studying what I really wanted to study, and that, to me, was fascinating.

Justin Donald: Yeah, this was a defining moment for you, and I remember talking about this with you last year in Florida, where this was your true breakthrough, number one, on time freedom; number two, on pursuing what you're most excited about in that moment. So, today, it's not yoga, but it was yoga and having the opportunity to, like, teach things yoga and then like other things that you wanted to teach, like, altogether, I think you ran like a course or a seminar or like a weekend event, and you kind of sold it out, and that's how you made your first money. So, it was like this led you on your lifestyle investor journey. And I just love it.

Pablo Della: Yes, so I started taking class for myself. Then, eventually, my teacher pushed me to start teaching some classes. That was scary, and then I loved it. And that was the first time that I experienced serving other people and seeing the impact of that service in other people. And that was so cool. I love that so much. That was an incredible experience. And then I had the freedom of creating workshops. Then, eventually, I was traveling around the world. In South America, I was traveling in Ecuador, and then I said, “I can create a yoga teacher training here, and I can teach people to become teachers.” So, I did that. And I started doing a lot of expressions of my entrepreneurial spirit, even before moving to the US. But again, without really thinking that I was doing anything entrepreneur, because that was not in the vocabulary in Argentina.

Justin Donald: Well, and you were just kind of muscling your way through. I remember it was kind of like, well, I need to make this much money, so I need this many people. And before I can do the next thing, we've got to fill this class, and I need this person to come help me, except I don't have the money to pay them. So, we need this many more people, and then we can do it the way I think we want to do it, right?

Pablo Della: Yes. And one thing that I want to share here is that when I was doing the math for the first workshop, there is this chicken and egg problem, which is, okay, I need to hire my friend, and I need to pay for the ticket, and I need to rent an apartment for two months, and I need to rent the place that we’re going to do the course, and I don't know if I'm going to have the people, because the South American culture sometimes is like, "Well, I will maybe tell you later,” and they maybe sign up three days before. So, there's a lot, like, okay, let's just think through this. If this goes great, fantastic. That's awesome. We're going to have a lot of people. And yes, financially speaking, I'm going to make a lot of money. If I don't have enough people, okay, how much money I'm going to lose? Okay, I'm going to lose $7,000. I'm like, “F*ck that's a lot of money.”

Justin Donald: And that was kind of like all the money to your name at that point, right? I think I remember that.

Pablo Della: That is maybe 70% of my net worth. I’m like, “Uhh, f*ck it. Let's do it. What's the worst thing that can happen? Okay, let's go. Yes.” And I would not consider that I was betting everything, because that was $10,000, which I understand for many people is a lot of money, but it's $10,000. It's not that I was betting $10 million. And I really felt that this is what I wanted, what I wanted, and what I needed to do. So, following that intuition, rather than the fear, this scarcity mentality, the fearful mindset that, to me, was a game changer. And I usually do these black or white questions to myself was, "Okay, what's the worst thing that can happen?” Well, okay, yeah, but what are we talking about? How much money? Are we talking about money? Are we talking about what?

Okay, we're talking about money. Okay. How much money is that? Okay. Can you live without that? I know that you want to keep that money. I get that, but can you live without that money? Yes, okay. But can you live with you being a f*cking coward and not doing what you really want to do? I'm like, “No, I can't live with that.”

Justin Donald: That's good. Well, and I like that you game it out too? Because I try and tell people the same thing. Imagine the best-case scenario. That's probably not going to happen. Imagine the worst-case scenario. That's also probably not going to happen. Can you live with the worst-case scenario? I know you can live with the best-case scenario. Can you live with the worst-case scenario? Because what's probably going to happen is something in the middle, right?

Pablo Della: Yes. I love that.

Justin Donald: And so, I mean, that's true entrepreneurial DNA right there, where it's like, "You know what? Roll the dice. Let's go. I could lose everything, but that's all right. I'm young, I can figure it out.” And I think a lot of people there are roadblocks, not even just to like losing the money, but to the fact that you did something that wasn't successful, like, I think that both of those are categories or avenues that hold people back, keep them in their corporate gig, keep them locked to the man or to being a slave, to the income you make, or to the safety and security of what you already have, right?

Pablo Della: That is a very good point. And when I decided to quit my job, you have to imagine, nobody was quitting any job, and I had a good job. Let's go.

Justin Donald: You were in a good position because you had a job.

Pablo Della: When I quit my job to start studying yoga, people were…

Justin Donald: They thought you were crazy.

Pablo Della: “He just went nuts. We lost Pablo. That's it.” And I always remember saying to myself this, and again, I love the people in that job, right? But I'm like, "This sh*tty job is going to be here always for me. That's it. Who cares? I can get this job again.” I got zero doubts about it. But what about this other opportunity? Like that opportunity is right now, and I really want to do that. Then am I going to allow the fear of this job that I don't want anymore? What? No. And my father always said this is one of the biggest lessons that my father taught me is, "You already have the no. Meaning, what's the worst thing that can happen? That you get a yes? Okay. Meaning, Pablo, that idea that you have right now about your yoga thing, that's a no right now. It doesn't exist. So, what's the worst thing that could happen? That you do it? Then it's a no. Okay, you already have the no. No problem. But maybe you get a yes.”

Justin Donald: What a great lesson. And there's so much to unpack here, but I think if we can just get to the point. So, I love what your dad said. It's a no by default, right? So, let's try and get the yes. But I just think, if you don't like your job, if you don't like what you do, if you don't even like your business, but let's talk about like your job, your corporate gig, whatever. If you don't like it, what is the risk in trying to find something else that you might like, or freelancing or side hustling, or whatever? Because I almost guarantee you can go back to the thing you're doing, or to an adjacent industry, or to a totally new industry at a similar comp level, maybe even a greater comp level. So, if you don't like what you do, life is short, and roll the dice on something else.

Pablo Della: Yes, and I think that it's important for us to get to the psychology when we are thinking about this, because I think that that is the impediment that people have. The thing that is stopping them is somehow, maybe their dead dad or grandfather, someone, the voice of someone that is right there. That is, like, "You're a failure,” or whatever that is. Again, I don't know what it is. For me was I don't want to be poor. I don't want to be poor. If I am poor, my parents got divorced when I was six years old. That was the worst experience of my life, and it was all because of money. And I saw a lot of other people getting divorced because of money, a lot of suffering because of lack of money.

And I'm talking about lack of millions. It's like whatever, it's fights, fights, fights. And I just made the mental model of, like, “I need to make money. I want to make a lot of money.” And maybe we can connect that to your original question, which was about my current business. So, in 2015, I am in Ecuador, and I am teaching a yoga teacher training, and I received an email from this website called Udemy.com which is like a University online thing. And it says, “Oh, you can make some money with this, this. Do you want to make an extra $2,000 a month, sell products on Amazon?” I'm like, “Dude, I would definitely love $2,000 a month more. Yes.”

Justin Donald: Sign me up. Yeah.

Pablo Della: That would make so much difference. So, what I did is I went inside, and I realized that this is just courses made by other people. Okay, so I bought not one course. I bought 10 courses. I bought all the courses because I didn't know what was going to be good or bad, and it was a discount. So, I paid $10 per course. I'm like, okay, I'm investing $100. $100 is a lot of money for me right now, but f*ck it. Let's do it. So, I buy it, and I just consumed. In the next month, I consumed all of them. And I think that I had a very good sense, maybe because of my previous experience in e-commerce in Argentina, selling T-shirts online. I realized, okay, this is garbage. I disagree with this. “Oh my gosh. This is very good.”

So, I created, like, my own mix of the things that, to me, were very valuable. And it all came down to, okay, if this is true, this is massive. Now think about this, right? There is a lot of people in the US that put a beautiful suit, and they sell you everything. And I'm like, "In Argentina, we are very skeptical about everything.” So, I'm like, “I don't know about this guy. I don't know.” So, I said, "Okay, if this is true, this is massive. If this is not true, I'm going to lose $5,000.” So, now, at that time, $5,000 it was, I would say, 30% of my net worth, more or less. I'm just guessing numbers here, but it was a big amount.

Justin Donald: Yeah, it's still a big risk.

Pablo Della: Yes, plus the time, which, at that time, I didn't really value my time.

Justin Donald: Well, and it's uncharted territory. It's an industry you don't know. It's a product. You don't know if this is going to work, and you are not an industry expert in any way, shape, or form.

Pablo Della: Yes. So, I said, “What's the worst thing that can happen? Okay, I lose $5,000. I already have the no. F*ck it. Let's do it.” That's the thought process. So, I heads down went very deep. And at the beginning, everyone was saying, "Okay, don't go into the wellness industry, because it's consumables. You're going to get sued.” And I'm like, “Oh my gosh, I don't want to get sued.” So, okay, what do you do? You start sourcing products from China. So, I start trying to source some products from China. Never really felt the connection, and I was working with them for one month or two months, and then samples came. I'm like, "This is garbage.” I'm just, "Screw the experts that are telling me don't go into wellness.” I'm like, “I'm going into wellness.”

Justin Donald: You trusted your gut. I love it. I love it. And by the way, maybe for the masses, it's not good, because there was a lot of competition, I think, at that time, so it was probably harder to stand out, but you also had the background of having split tested a whole bunch of things early days with your early t-shirt e-commerce, or Jersey e-commerce business.

Pablo Della: Yes. So, I started the business. And it's funny, at the beginning, I said, “Okay, I'm just going to start this business. I'm going to sell it for $1 million.” That was the biggest that I could think of like let's say whatever I had $30,000 or $40,000 in the bank. And I'm like, "Okay, million dollars.” Because whatever number you have, you have two more, and it looks like very, very much. It looks like a lot.

Justin Donald: Well, and it's funny how arbitrary sometimes the numbers we come up with are. It's like, "Well, this would be the greatest thing ever. This is my ceiling. Let me just throw it out there.” It reminds me of, like, I don't know if you ever saw the original Austin Powers, where they're going back and forth, and they're like, "This would cost you $1 million,” and they're like, "Well, actually, because of inflation, a million dollars is not worth much.”

Pablo Della: Nowadays, unfortunately, which the people that don't have it are listening to this like, “F*ck these two guys. It would make a lot for me today.” I'm like, yeah, for sure, for sure. But can you quit your job and do nothing for the rest of your life, or can you just live a life of service without really, well, $1 million is not going to really take unless you really want to keep living at $20,000 life and you become a great investor. That's a whole different topic that we can get into if you want.

Justin Donald: And then we should. We definitely should.

Pablo Della: Yes, let's do it. So, just to wrap up with the story, I started the business. I started learning in February 2015. I think that I launched my first product in June or July 2015, so that is 10 years and a half from today, which is crazy to think about. And I was just refreshing on the app like, "Did I sell something? Is this real? Is it going to happen?” And I just couldn't. And the results start coming. And it was unbelievable. And I realized, "Holy sh*t, this is incredible.” So, in the first half a year, we did half a million in revenue, and it was just me, and I hired one friend in the last month of the year. Yeah, that was the beginning. It is still a great, great journey. We can talk about whatever you want in that journey, also.

Justin Donald: Well, it's amazing. I mean, this is by far the most money you've ever made. It's the most money you probably even dreamed of making. You're making half of what you wanted to ultimately sell the business for in revenue year one, with very low expenses. And then I know the rest of the story, because I know how you were growing and scaling. And we can talk ad nauseam, I suppose, in as much detail as you want on this, but I think what you did to scale this brand is nothing short of extraordinary, and I'd love for people to hear and learn what you did, because you took it to another stratosphere, like a whole another universe.

Pablo Della: Thank you again. Too much credit, in my opinion, but thank you. Appreciate it. Now, an important thing that for me was a big lesson even though I had some understanding in the business with a T-shirt business. But when I was teaching yoga, revenue equals profit is I had no cost, basically, or very little cost, but no, I had some cost, but very little cost. Now, here's a different game, because if I want to stay, playing the game, I need to keep buying inventory. So, that's when you get cash flow, which for me was like, “Oh, I don't even understand.” But so, yes, I made “half a million” in the first year, but I took home zero.

Justin Donald: Reinvesting for growth.

Pablo Della: Yes. I made maybe 100. And I think that the numbers were half a million in sales, 150,000 in EBITDA, and literally, I had 50,000 that are, like, free cash flow, that I can buy a car. And I'm like, “No, this is going back into more products.” So, I did not take any money for the first year and a half, two years. Zero.

Justin Donald: So, how did you, I guess, get past so we've talked about like the psychology of money, and you and both of us, you and I both kind of having like a scarce mindset around money, early days, not coming from much, having parents that didn't make much, not making much in the early days. So, how did you actually rationalize with yourself, instead of buying a new car and getting some instant gratification today, to reinvest this back into the business for the hope we don't know for sure that this is going to take off? This thing could crash and die. You could get another competitor in seeing your success and mimic what you're doing. I mean, it could literally go to zero. But you said, “Hey, I'm going to roll the dice, and I'm going to put all of it into buying inventory for the next year.”

Pablo Della: Yeah, that is an interesting question, and I don't think that I thought like that. I didn't think, “Okay, I'm going to make a bet right now, and maybe this goes to zero because it was already taken off.” And it's interesting. I did not think that. I did not think this could go to zero. I also didn't think that this could go to where it is today. So, let me just be clear on that. But for me, was an obvious decision like, "Well, why the f*ck do I need a car? I don't care.” Like, literally, that was kind of it's a cool thing. Yeah, it would be cool to have a better car, but I don't care. Just again, for context, I bought my first real estate that I live in, like, three years ago.

Justin Donald: Wow, yeah.

Pablo Della: Why? Not because I couldn't afford it. Of course, that I could, but because I was not living in those places, and I felt that it was more temporary. So, I don't really want to buy. I prefer to rent, and I don't know if I'm going to like the neighborhood, and if I don't like the neighborhood, I move somewhere else. So, I prefer the flexibility, the optionality. Now, for me, buying the home that I live gives me the freedom, the flexibility to do whatever I want inside of the house, to have it in whatever way I have it.

Justin Donald: My wife probably appreciates that too, because she probably has…

Pablo Della: A hundred percent.

Justin Donald: It's an outlet, a creative outlet for her, right, to make it her own. That's how my wife is.

Pablo Della: So, yeah, I don't know where we were with that, but.

Justin Donald: Well, let's talk about scaling your company. So, how did it grow over the years? And you got to the place where you were able to… So, early days, it was you. You were doing everything. You brought someone in. It was you and one other person, and then you scaled it. Your team's big. You don't do a lot of the day-to-day anymore. So, like understanding how you got to there, I mean, the way I would describe it is you run a true lifestyle business today. It doesn't take you a lot of hours personally to manage it. The business kicks off some great cash. You live an incredible life. And I'd love to understand how you got there.

Pablo Della: Well, it's a very interesting story, I think, especially now reflecting through this. So, I would divide my 10 years in three different stages. So, the first stage was scaling the business. That's when the business grew a lot in the first four years. And it was just hustling and let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go type of mentality. By the way, for context, I did not finish university. I don't have a degree on business or anything like that. I just know how to use Excel, and I am kind of good, more or less, with numbers. Math was always kind of easy for me, and I think that I can sense the idea of numbers.

Justin Donald: You've got good intuition. I want to give you that too. I think that's a superpower that not a lot of people take advantage of, right, trusting their gut, trusting their intuition. I think you do a really good job of that.

Pablo Della: Thank you. And I think that I also have this thing of like, I don't really give a sh*t about a lot of other things.

Justin Donald: You do have that. I know this very well about you. You don't care what other people think.

Pablo Della: I really care about what people that I care think, of course. I really value and appreciate their feedback 100%, but it's not many people. It’s thousands of people. It's not millions of people.

Justin Donald: Yeah, you are very comfortable walking to the beat of your own drum, and it's very refreshing being around you because of that.

Pablo Della: Thank you. Thank you. So, at the beginning, I was going to say that I never hired anyone in my life ever. I never had a person that was working underneath me that I was managing, never. So, I remember calling my dad, like, “Hey, Dad, how do I hire a person?” I need someone to… Because there was no software to track sales in Amazon. So, it was all manual, completing an Excel file. And then my dad gave me some advice, and I did not buy into that advice for whatever reason, like, "Ah, I don't think that fits me.” And then I just call one person like, “Hey, do you know anyone that speaks English?” Because this friend worked in a hostel in Argentina. It's like, "Well, yeah, for what is it?” I was like, “Well, I need a person to do the la, la, la.”

And he said, "Maybe I can do that.” I'm like, “Okay, you have a computer, you have internet. Okay, good, let's go.” So, at the beginning, the first years were terrible the way that I hire people, because it was like, "Oh, you know someone, okay, come, let’s go.”

Justin Donald: You got the job.

Pablo Della: It was so bad. And I'm sorry to everyone that I had in that time, because it was, yeah, the way that I just handled things were really, really poor, I would say. So, then, at some point, I started getting frustrated with the Argentinian culture. There is a lot of entitlement, which is usually what happens when you have a country that is run with socialism, communist tendencies, you get entitlement. And I’m like, “I don't like this.” And a friend of mine, we were traveling, and he said, “Dude, I just hired this person in the Ukraine, and these guys are so hardcore. It’s incredible.” I'm like, “Let's f*cking go to Kyiv. Let's hire some people.” So, we just flew to Kyiv, and we started hiring people.

So, I hired three people, two people there. And then eventually, over the years, I ended up replacing all my Argentinian team with, I feel that it was like 100% Ukrainian team.

Justin Donald: Wow.

Pablo Della: And these people were like hardcore. They were working all the time. It was amazing. But then the big problem that I had, the moment where I said, “I don't want this business anymore. This is insane,” is when I realized that I became an HR manager, and I don't know that many people.

Justin Donald: It got big.

Pablo Della: Team got big, big, like whatever, 20 people. It's not like a humongous team, like other people that have hundreds of people, but it was so draining, because I loved sales and trying to connect here, and how do we make this product more successful? And now all of a sudden, I have to attend to meetings about HR and bullsh*t, and I go, “I hate this.” But I remember my wife telling me, “I know that you're in meetings all day long, but what do you do?” And I couldn't really answer.

Justin Donald: Well, we’re supposed to have meetings, right? Isn't that what business people do? They just have meetings. All my friends that have companies, they have business meetings.

Pablo Della: Well, for me was like, I don't know, but I'm sure that we're doing something important. I'm like, "Oh, no, this is bad.” So, I went from entrepreneurial meaning, let's go, let's go, let's go to manager, and many people that are like us, we tend to say that we are terrible managers. And I agree. I don't want to be a manager. I want to be a leader because I don't want to have to manage anyone. I don't want to work with someone that I have to manage, like this is an adult. This person can think on their own, and that's what I want. I want freedom for myself. The only way that I can achieve freedom is if the other person is free. If the other person is not free and is under my management, then I am also a slave.

Justin Donald: Well, you nailed it, right, the difference between micromanaging a business and macro-managing a business. One model is you hire people that are dependent, and you provide that dependency relationship, or you hire people that are independent that are world leaders that go and they figure it out, and you don't have to manage them, because they have a very high, you know, they initiate. They've got a high achievement drive, they want to perform, and they're solution-oriented. Big difference between the two models.

Pablo Della: Yes, but I would also put the caveat here that even with the greatest people, if we don't behave like leaders, and when I say leaders, I mean I want to be able to paint the vision and the direction, and I want to make sure that at the beginning, you understand what I'm saying, because it takes some time to understand, and I want to understand how you work, but eventually, soon, in the next couple of months, I want that you are free, and the way that I say it is, you need to understand my vision, and then you need to be able to set up the strategy of, meaning, how do we get there? You need to execute on your strategy, and therefore, you need to own your results, the results that you are generating.

The biggest problem that I have made, and I have seen a lot of people make, is that people are visionaries, or they want to be visionaries, but they are still approving the strategy. And what I say is, if I am approving the strategy, that strategy is mine. I need to let the person approve the strategy of how do we get to that vision?

Justin Donald: Yeah, but own the vision.

Pablo Della: Well, I need to own the vision. I am the visionary. So, if someone says, “Hey, we want to take the products and start whatever, selling in Hong Kong, because whatever, and then we want to do makeup in Korea, because whatever,” I'm like, “No, that's not the vision that I have for this company.”

Justin Donald: Yep, that's good. So, phase one, scale. What were phase two and three?

Pablo Della: Two is HR manager, or the worst moment, the worst time in my life.

Justin Donald: You wanted to sell. You wanted to be done. This was draining you, not filling you up.

Pablo Della: So, this is the moment that I had, the most amount of money in my life, the least amount of time freedom, and the least amount of happiness and satisfaction in my life.

Justin Donald: That's crazy.

Pablo Della: How do you square that paradox?

Justin Donald: Oh, it's tough. I mean, you regressed in your mind. It was like I went backwards. Money went forwards and freedom, lifestyle, flexibility, enjoyment, fulfillment, passion went backwards, and now I'm realizing those are more important than the money.

Pablo Della: I am literally sitting down, and I'm looking back in my life. I'm thinking the happiest moment in my life is not today. It's when I had almost nothing, and I was teaching yoga, and I was backpacking in South America, backpacking in Europe, hitchhiking in Asia. That was the happy… And I had no money. And then that's when I started thinking, like, what the heck is going on here? Okay, stop everything. Pause. What's happening here? And that's when I had to start. Well, I went through a lot of pain in that moment, which, again, is crazy, because money is coming in, but I still need to attend to these meetings, or I feel that I need to attend to this meeting.

Justin Donald: Yeah, that’s a good catch, good distinction. I feel like I need to be in these meetings.

Pablo Della: 100%, I don't think that nothing would have happened if I said, “Guys, now you take care of this or whatever.” And that's when I started thinking like, "Well, maybe I just need to sell my business, because now, if I sell my business, I can make a lot of money, and maybe if I make a lot of money, maybe then I will be happy.”

Justin Donald: Fallacy is a trap so many people fall into, “I’ll be happy when.”

Pablo Della: Yes, and by the way, it is a lot of money, right? So, it's a very good excuse, and it's a real number, and it's like, "Holy sh*t, I can do that, make all this money, tens of millions of dollars, like, money forever, like, that's it. That's literally it. I don't need to do anything else in my life that I have to do. I get to choose what I want to do, and I get rid of this burden.” That sounds like a very good deal. So, I went through that path, and then the universe basically said, like, “Nope, dude, you need to figure this out.” You need to figure out. I'm not going to get into the details of exactly what happened. Nothing really happened in the sense of, like, I didn't end up selling the business. The whole market went in collapse. Let's say this is like 2022 and so on.

So, I said, “Okay, we need to figure this thing out.” So, I had a commercial with my team. Open book, I said, "Guys, I think that I am done with this. I think that somebody else deserves to own this business. But the market is tough, and now the business went down for the first year in history. So, I want to turn the ship around. And I want that you guys make also a lot of money if we are able to sell the business.” So, we had that conversation, and they said, “Okay, I mean, it was a lot of money.” And then eventually, they turned the ship around. I was able to work out some mental models for them to become owners. And I mean, owners not from like, "Oh, we own part of the company,” but we own the strategy, the execution, and the results, and that leads to certain bonuses that are extremely, extremely good for them.

So, that was when I started. This is the last three years where I started moving away from manager to owner, which is where I am today. Again, it's three years. It's a lot of f*cking work. I don't want to make it simple. It's a lot of work. I just summarize so many frustrations of 10 years, right? But these last three years have been the best because it really helped me to grow so much as an owner, as a person, as a human, and allow them to also become leaders.

Justin Donald: Yeah. I mean, so many great lessons in here. And I remember when you were talking, I mean, we talked pretty openly about you selling your business, and what you would make, and what you would do, and how things would change. And quite frankly, I don't think things were going to change that much for you anyway, because you were already doing well. You're already bringing in great income every year. So, it's not like you needed an exit, and you're also a great investor, which we can talk about here today, too, where you're not just spending everything, you're investing a ton of it. So, even if you sold the business, I don't think your life changes much, if any, and so it's neat seeing that the timing didn't work out. The market said no.

You were able to kind of re-establish the business. From my understanding, you've been able to grow it, maybe even grow the margins, but more importantly, reduce the amount of time that you are spending in it. So, it is a lot more like clockwork. Revenue coming in, profit at the end of the day, reinvesting what you need to, investing on the side for you, but with a lot less work, a lot less headache, a lot less HR, and putting out fires and all that, and really developing leaders. A real leader is going to develop people that lead better than they do, right? I mean, that is kind of the definition of a leader, and it's hard for people that have a power struggle or have the ego that they're the best leader, or they're the king of the castle for their business, but I think we should aspire to develop leaders better than us.

Pablo Della: Yes, 100%, and that is how I feel with my team. They can do way better job than I can, and I feel more and more useless in the day-to-day of the business, which is exactly what I want. I don't want to be useful in the day-to-day. I want that they are the leaders, the owners of the day-to-day. Because, okay, I would say one of my motto is, in my motto in life, is know yourself and invest accordingly. Meaning, know yourself, develop yourself, go deep within yourself, understand yourself, what you like, what you don't like. Why? Where is this coming from? Just work on yourself. And this, to me, is a job that never ends. And then invest. Invest what? Invest your time, invest your energy, invest your money accordingly.

Don't follow, don't copy-paste what other people are doing. Yeah, I know Warren Buffett, the best investor. I don't care. Warren is Warren. I am Pablo., I know Warren. Great guy. I need to discover who I am. What makes me wake up in the morning? What am I excited about? Rather than okay, he says S&P. I need to do S&P, or whatever he says. So, this is how I like to process this situation. And I find, by the way, I love learning from other people. But I also have this like, “Oh no, that's not for me. That doesn't connect with the way that I like doing things.” Okay, how can I put things in my own words? What's one thing that really helped me to get out of the day-to-day is pushing my team with the phrase, "Is this a must or a nice-to-have?” So, as an example, “Hey, Pablo, we have a meeting next Monday about blah, blah, blah.” “Okay, is it a must that I go or a nice-to-have?”

And at the beginning, they're like, “Oh, it's a must.” I'm like, “Cool. Tell me what's the ROI.” I want to know exactly what are we talking about here. Because if you can say, “Look, this is the ROI is a million dollars because, and here's the math,” I'm like, “I'm going to be there.” But if you are just operating out of custom, and this is the way that we've been doing it forever. So, that phrase really helped us challenge a lot of recurring meetings that we used to have, or ways of doing things, the way that we used to do it, just because that's the way that we used to do it. And we were able to trim so much fat by understanding that the nice-to-have, out. “But what if, like…?” “No, no, maybe one day. Let's focus on the musts.”

Justin Donald: I like it, yeah, get back to the basics and kind of recreate. Howard Lutnick was talking about this on the All-In Podcast, where, basically, what they've done with what Trump has done a good job of, and what this administration has done a good job of, is reimagining what it should look like. So, not just doing things that are there because we've always done them, but like, what actually is a more efficient way, a more successful way, like, how should we think about it? And they've kind of flipped things on their head, and it's been very fruitful on a lot of levels. And I think that's very valuable to do in your business, especially at different levels. As you scale, there are certain things you do at a certain level, and then if you continue those processes, they just don't work at the greater level.

So, as you scale, you need to retool the systems, retool those SOPs. And I love that you're doing that. And I also want to talk because, early days, something that I think really helped you get lift off, you were in an early mastermind, and you were around other people. I met a bunch of your friends from there, and we'd become friends, and I bought a bunch of their products. I always love supporting. For anyone who writes a book, I buy their book. Anyone who has a product, I buy them. Like, I just want to support all my friends that are entrepreneurs and authors and creators. But I think it would be powerful to share what that community did for you in terms of like confidence or vision or accountability or just winning together, because there's a handful of you that all became very successful. All of your businesses blew up in a positive way, like took off.

Pablo Della: Yes, so let me see, where do I go? So, let's just connect back to the story that in 2015 I start my business, I get these courses, and then in 2016 I moved to Uruguay. I leave USA, moved to Uruguay, and I was part of a community, Amazon sellers, whatever. And I remember posting, you could post screenshots of your sales, and then you get budgets, like gamification of the system, and I’m like, "Oh, wait, that's cool.” So, I had a month, I think that it was April 2016, we did half a million in revenue in April. So, I grabbed this, posted the screenshot, and then I received an email from the founder of this is, it's called Amazing.com. I'm not promoting anyone, I'm just telling you what it is, right?

Amazing.com, this is the place where they threw the biggest Amazon conferences, and they were the only people in town doing this. I received an email from him saying like, "Hey, congrats on the success. Would you like to come and speak in the conference?”

Justin Donald: That's awesome.

Pablo Della: And I am like, man, these guys are f*cked because they don't even know me. They are offering me this. They’re like, “Do you want to do a presentation?” I'm like, “I don't really want to do a presentation, but I am cool if we just sit down and chat. Yeah, I'm game for that.” And I said, “But I mean, Uruguay, can you pay the tickets and the hotel?” It's like, "Let me check.” They’re like, "Yeah, we can do that.” I'm like, “Okay, f*ck it. Let's go.” So, keep in mind, I've never been to a conference in my life.

Justin Donald: This is great. I love that like you just had a month that was the size are greater than what you had your very first year. And I love that there’s so much here that’s so new to you and you don’t even recognize how much of an outlier and an anomaly you are. You’re like, oh, go speak in an event. I just love the naivety that exists here. And I just can only imagine the room when you actually showed up and they saw who Pablo was.

Pablo Della: So, I get into the room, and for context, so I learned to speak English in Argentina growing up, but the English level was, the teaching was so bad. It was British English, and we learned from a cassette, the cassette had horrible sound. It was really bad. So, when I get to the US, I don’t understand anything. So, I start watching all the episodes of Friends, Seinfeld, Shark Tank. I started learning about business watching Shark Tank, always with subtitles, going back and forth to understand what they’re– I’m like 5% of your business. What do you mean 5%? How does that work? All these things are so new and I was learning so much.

Anyhow, this guy invited me and I’m like, oh, f*ck it, let’s go. Whatever. What’s the worst thing that can happen? Nothing. Let’s go. So, I go there. I am one of the first people to go on a stage in the interview, and it seems that the interview was very good, right? And after the interview, we do a break, go– this is 5,000 people. This conference is a lot of people. So, I go to the bathroom. I just get mobbed. Everyone is just asking me questions. I’m like, okay, whatever. I’m thinking like, I am also hustling here in terms of, I have a business, I’m not an expert on anything. And all these people asking me questions, okay?

And then a couple of friends, one of them you know, came to me and said like, “Hey, we have a mastermind.” That was awesome. “We have a mastermind. We’re going to have dinner.” And this was, by the way, in Austin, Texas. “So, do you want to join us?” I’m like, “Okay.” And again, skeptic mindset. I’m like, “Ah, these people, are they going to try to sell me something? I don’t want to buy anything.” So, I go there and I meet all these other sellers. And I was like, blown away, the energy. Everyone wanted to do things. What are you doing with the pieces like this? What about this? What about this? What about that? I was like, holy sh*t, this is what I want. This is my people. I love this.

So, then, in that event, in the last day I think, one guy was selling a mastermind in Cabo and the mastermind ticket was $10,000. So, you have to remember, I’m flying economy. I am starting to not to look too much at the prices in the menus. I am starting to be like, what do I really want, rather than what’s the cheapest thing.

Justin Donald: Yes. Oh, what a great distinction. What a great moment in time because I feel like so many of us can relate to that. Either we’re still in that space where we’re looking, oh, this one’s cheaper, I’ll buy that. Or we remember the time where we upgraded our software, right, which we’re going to talk about that here today, too.

Pablo Della: So, that’s when I met a couple of friends and that’s when I– sorry. Sorry, to go back to that event, I said, $10,000, sh*t, that is a lot of money. Is it going to be worth it? Not going to be worth it, blah, blah, blah. Skipping my right. The year before, I started my business with $5,000. So, fast forward year and something, I am paying 10,000 bucks to go to an event in Cabo. Never been to Mexico before. I’m like, okay, okay, let’s buy it quickly before I regret this. Okay, let’s go. Done.

And then I go to that mastermind and I just couldn’t believe what I was seeing because it was this guy that I wanted, that we, the sellers, share all the amazing things that we know about the business for him to then go and regurgitate and package this and sell it to other people. And I said, f*ck this. Let’s just create our own mastermind. And that’s when I created our own mastermind with the people that you know. And that mastermind, it had a one premise, which was the only way to be here in this room is to provide value to each other. Nobody here is making money. Nobody here is charging. We are literally renting a place, splitting all the costs. That’s it. So, if you don’t share, if you don’t provide value, you are not going to be part of the mastermind.

Justin Donald: You’re going to be voted off the island.

Pablo Della: People thought that I was joking.

Justin Donald: Oh, man. They don’t know you then. Not yet. Because I know you vote people off the island.

Pablo Della: And that was such a game changer. Not only for me, but also for the other people that you know, because that was the place where we had our own forum, right, our own YPO forum or TIGER Forum, but we were all in the same kind of business. We were all seeing what everyone was doing. So, we were renting a place, like a mansion in Las Vegas to say something, and we are all sleeping there and we are going back to back for three or four days, sitting on the couch, watching presentations from each person. I mean, imagine, like do your PD, your portfolio defense, but with your business. Share everything, what’s going where I wasn’t. And then we are all trying to help, trying to help. It was so intense and so good. That mastermind was fundamental in my growth as a human being in my business, and I know for a fact on all the other people that participated. And it was such an incredible experience.

Justin Donald: Well, I just can’t endorse masterminds enough because my greatest lessons learned, the way that I’m able to think differently, think bigger, have larger expectations, figure out the know-how to do things. Like it all came from peer group and mentorship, people playing the game of business and life and wealth creation at a higher level than me that are willing to take the time to teach me, but are also hungry and eager enough to know what I’m doing that they want to learn too. So, like the ego is not too big that they can’t learn from me, even though I’m maybe low man on the totem pole in certain rooms that I’m in, right? And I love that. It’s just, I love learning from people like that.

Pablo Della: I think that it’s very difficult to get anywhere in life unless you have your tribe that you are in a similar journey, and hopefully, you get to find some people that are a little bit ahead of you or a lot ahead of you or whatever. But I’m sure for you and for me, for sure, it’s not the people that I grew up with.

Justin Donald: Right. Generally, it’s not. Generally, I think, sometimes you’re lucky enough that those people kind of grow with you and maybe you get into entrepreneurial stuff or investment stuff together and you grow together at the same time. I think it’s rare. I think, generally, as you get exposed to people like Tony Robbins, you and I both experience some time there, and the growth mentality that you get and the desire to play the game at a higher level, you really have to find those other people that also want to do that. You need to find the people you can grow with, the people that will challenge you, the people you can challenge, the people that get you out of your comfort zone that are not afraid to say things to you that you need to hear, right? They’re friends, not fans. People that have distinctions that are rare, that most people looking at your business, they don’t have those, but these people do and they’re willing to speak into it.

So, I do think you have to chase those relationships. I mean, for me, I had to chase some of these people down. Like I wasn’t in their ecosystem. They didn’t know who I was. Like I had to establish who I was and add value and show up consistently to the point that, in some of these groups, they were willing to accept me into their group, right? But I pursued them because I knew I needed them to take my business, my game, my wealth to the next level.

Pablo Della: So, let me ask you a question on that. What is the mindset? Because I guess that most people are going to give up in the middle or not even pursue it. So, what was your mindset around it that made you follow through and make it happen?

Justin Donald: Well, I just have always had this desire to figure it out, whatever it is, like, whatever the thing is. It may be a sport, it might be school, it might be business. I get this insatiable desire to solve and to figure it out and to win or to succeed, whatever it is. And I just want to be around people that are also in that space that can help me, that can partner with me, that can teach me.

And it’s not for the external look, like I don’t actually care if you think I’m successful or they think I’m successful. I care that I think I’m successful. I care that I– like there’s a pride for me to be able to figure it out, to scale. The company’s broken here. We can’t get past this. We’re at a ceiling. We’re at an inflection point. And I take a lot of pride in the fact that I can work hard and figure it out. And usually, it’s not me. It’s bringing people in that see it differently than me that can teach me and I’m willing to take what they say. Like, I’m willing to be a student, right? But I will do what it takes to crack the code. And I like that.

Pablo Della: I love it.

Justin Donald: Yeah. And I know you’re very much that way as well. All right, Pablo, I’m really excited, I mean, probably, what I’m most excited to dig in with you on is this whole idea of upgrading your software. So, you’ve said this for a while, and at first, I needed context and clarity to understand it, but if I or there’s a handful of people that we’ve been in different groups are hanging out and you would make this comment, and so, I’m trying to figure out, okay, do I need to upgrade my software? Is he talking to me? Or I might say something and you say it, and it’s like, wait a minute. But I like it because it stops me in my tracks and it’s like, yeah, actually, am I thinking about this the way that I’ve always thought about it and I’ve never just considered that there’s another way or a better way? And so, I want to talk about upgrading your mindset. When you say upgrade your software, it’s like upgrade your mindset, figure out, grow a better growth mindset, right? Let’s dig into this.

Pablo Della: Yeah, definitely, we are talking about mindset. The reason why I like saying upgrade your software is because I would guess that 100% of your audience, 100%, they are upgrading some kind of software in their lives. Their computer, their cell phone, something is getting upgraded. So, it becomes normal for us. We understand that unless we upgrade the software of the hardware that we are using, sometimes we need to also upgrade the hardware. But in this case, we have one hardware that we can shape, right? We can work on certain things to make the hardware better. So, let’s say health as an example.

But what about the software? And I think that you and I shared many rooms and we’ve been around a lot of very successful people. We can see that, yes, maybe they have an incredible business. Yes, they had a lot of money, but they are still living with a very old software, which is not allowing them to be free. So, this is why, for me, I have to really process these things of, okay, what am I– I’m just going to try to give some examples, right? And I’m not encouraging to spend beyond your means. I’m just talking about…

Justin Donald: Good distinction.

Pablo Della: Yes. If you cannot afford it, you should not afford it. Don’t go into credit to fly first class. Like, don’t. Don’t do it. Just eat sh*t. Go in the back in the plane.

Justin Donald: That’s right.

Pablo Della: Unless there is a real good explanation of why that is a must that you need to do. But flying private for a picture in Instagram, like, f*ck you, what are you doing? Like, don’t be stupid. So, it’s very important to make the distinction of like, why am I doing this? But also, to ask, why am I not doing this? Okay, I know that I can afford, let’s just talk numbers, right? So, if we are thinking about, let’s talk about first-class ticket from Dubai to Miami. So, that is maybe, whatever, 12-hour, 14-hour flight. Well, a first-class ticket will cost you maybe $14,000. A business class may cost you, whatever, $4,000 or $5,000.

What people say like, well, it’s not much difference. I’m like, well, first of all, have you ever flown first class? Well, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And you can sense the resistance. We are talking about people that have millions of dollars. Okay? This is just for the audience for some context. This does not register if they make that, but they are believing still with a poor mindset. Somehow, they are not allowing themselves to step in to their new place, their new– so therefore, they tend to think from a fearful mindset, from a scarcity mindset rather than from an abandoned mindset.

So, this is why, and we– I mean, I gave a talk in September in an event that we both were there, right? And I shared with the group, okay, raise your hand. This is all multimillionaires. Okay? Everyone there has maybe whatever, $20 million plus, right?

Justin Donald: At least, yep. And many lapse above that, many of them are $50 million, $100 million, $200 million, $500 million, right?

Pablo Della: Yeah, maybe the average in the room is $75 million, I would say. So, I said, raise your hand if you ever, in the last year, to an UberX, and half of the room is raising their hand. And I was like, holy sh*t, this is worse than I thought. So, people have not done the math, and if they’ve done the math, they don’t think the way that I see it too is, you don’t think that you are worth it? People say, “I’m not worth it.” I’m like, “No, no, you don’t think that you are worth it.”

So, let’s just do the math here, and I’m just giving this as an example of then you guys can do whatever math you want in your life, but if you say, okay, how much money are you spending on Uber annually? First of all, most people don’t even know. Okay, you should know, number one. Now that you know an Uber Black, let’s just go the top gear, all the way up. First of all, let’s compare Uber Black, UberX. So, price is maybe three times, you would say?

Justin Donald: Yeah, probably.

Pablo Della: Okay, got it. So, people say like, oh, I spend $5,000 in Uber. Okay, great. Do you have an extra 10,000 bucks in your budget? If someone robs you 10,000 bucks, would you even notice in your annual budget? And we all know what’s the answer. The answer is like. I have the money and I will not really notice. And it makes me a little bit scary to even say that, but it is the truth. Great.

Now, let’s just be honest. Is an Uber Black safer than an UberX? If you understand anything about physics, well, a bigger car is better than a small car. Are usually Uber Black drivers better drivers, the car is cleaner, the service is better than an UberX? Let’s be honest. It is, right?

Justin Donald: Yeah, for sure.

Pablo Della: Don’t you think that you deserve that?

Justin Donald: That’s good.

Pablo Della: So, we are talking about that. So, this is the games, especially for the people that grew up poor, like you and I, or without much, I would say, we grew up counting the cents.

Justin Donald: Yeah, oh, for sure. I mean, I would go to the gas station. Where I grew up, there were two gas stations on these two corners and I would go to the one that was cheaper that day. And it may be by one penny cheaper, and I would go there.

Pablo Della: 100%, yes. My mom, when I was growing up, gave me like 25 cents. This is Argentinian money, which is, I don’t know, maybe it’s half of a half of a half of a cent in the US currency. And I would just walk for one hour to save that money because I’m like, yes, I have the time, I can walk, and I prefer to save that money. So, for people that grew up like that, what I end up realizing is there is a big difference in the way that they tend to run their businesses, which usually is much more, let’s go, we can invest in this. I can see the value.

But then somehow, let’s just keep flying economy or let’s keep flying business when they can afford first class or let’s keep flying first class when they can afford private. There is always a level. And maybe I would just encourage the audience to think about what is that level that you are right now stuck in not valuing yourself, whatever that is. It can be going to the cheap restaurant when you, in fact, can really afford to a more expensive one. And I’m going to give you the hack that a friend gave me that made all the difference. Or it can be, again, flying business instead of economy. Many people, in that room, many people say, like, well, if it’s a fly less than three hours, I fly economy because I don’t see the difference because it’s not really worth it. I’m like, yes, it is. And then I can prove why it is worth it.

Justin Donald: Well, and not to mention, even just who you might meet there, just from like an interesting, I learned this from my buddy, Cameron Herold. He came on the podcast and shared this, and really, that was kind of for me, like, oh, yeah, I should be just traveling first class all the time if I’m flying commercial, if there’s a nonstop or whatever. And that was it. It was like, and I’ve met so many cool people in first class sitting next to me or sitting across from me because of that one move.

Pablo Della: And in addition to that, there is a big– and you have an assistant, I have an incredible assistant also, so we don’t have to do a lot of that heavy lifting, but many entrepreneurs do not, even decamillionaires do not have an assistant. That is a poor mindset. They don’t think that they have enough things to give to the assistant. That means that they don’t have nothing really going on in their lives, like what’s going on?

Justin Donald: Not valuing their time for what it’s worth. That’s for darn sure, because the last thing I want to do is spend my time booking flights or entering info or booking hotels. There’s just more important things, and let me just even say it, from not even like more important, from the standpoint of like creating wealth or income or whatever, but even just more pleasant, enjoyable things for me to do, I don’t like doing those things. Therefore, it needs to be outsourced so I can spend my time doing the things that I enjoy doing with the people I want to do them with, and also, the activities that produce the most ROI.

Pablo Della: And this is where it comes back to know yourself and invest accordingly. I know, just like you, I hate doing admin. I hate filling out forms. If I go to the doctor, my assistant knows that I hate filling out the form and her job is that I am happy, not that I am pissed.

Justin Donald: That’s good.

Pablo Della: The happier I am, the better she’s doing her job because she’s removing all the things that I just don’t want to be doing.

Justin Donald: Yep. Remove the friction.

Pablo Della: Remove the friction, yes. And here’s the trick that my friend gave me because, so I was– okay, let me share it this way. So, I was looking at his presentation and he’s sharing that he’s flying private, and I’m looking at his net worth and I’m like, he’s so calm and chilled about flying private. I have more money than him and I am freaking out just with the concept. I’m like, this makes no sense. That’s the mindset, right? That’s the old software. So, I said, “Hey, can we meet? Can you walk me through?” In fact, what I was saying is like, “Help me upgrade my mindset, please.” And he said, “Well…”

Justin Donald: Help me see it the way you see it, please.

Pablo Della: And he says, okay, so let me ask you, do you have a budget? And I go like, God, I don’t believe in budgets, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he’s like, well, here’s how I solve the problem. I have a budget and I allocate how much money I have in my budget to spend in private aviation per year. So, if it’s $50,000, I know that if I am in whatever I am and I want to take the flight, I just take it because it is in my budget, so I don’t need to think about it. And of course, I resisted that concept and then at some point, I’m like, okay, f*ck you, I’m going to do it. So, I sit down, I do the budget, and it was such a liberating experience.

Now, this is my experience and I think that is the experience of other friends. When making that massive expense, when paying that massive expense for the first time, it’s normal that it’s painful, and I think that it has to be painful. We are talking about expenses that you can afford. So, whatever that is, if it’s a $10,000 jet or if it’s a $50,000 jet or if it’s a vacation that is $50,000 when you are used to paying $10,000, but it has to hurt a little bit. But again, it’s a calculated risk. You already have it in your budget. You know that you’re not going to go broke. You have the income. Everything is good. You are safe.

So, the way that I describe it is, this is Pablo, but also, there is little poor, broke Pablo kid. The kid, right? I grew up poor. I grew up broke. And then I say, “Okay, who do I want that is in charge of this? Do I want the current version of Pablo or I want little Pablo that is broke and is afraid to be in charge of this experience?” Well, I definitely don’t– you know what? Hey, Pablo, listen. Little Pablo, just go sit…

Justin Donald: Pablito.

Pablo Della: Pablito, go sit down, relax, chill, enjoy the experience. I got this. And that is the painful experience, but it has to be a little bit painful, I guess, like calculated risks, calculated pain, and every time I’m seeing it more and more clear and I have other things to share, but it’s always the same. I’m like, oh, f*ck. Renting this apartment, it was just beyond. I could afford it, but it was double of anything that I ever paid in my life and it was painful, even though I can afford it. I’m like, okay, and I have to go sit down. This is my way, right? Sit down, look at the numbers. Look at my budget. I’m like, okay, okay, you are safe, little Pablito. Go back. Go back. Okay, we got this. We got this.

Justin Donald: I love it. Well, and I love being in the private jet with everyone that’s flying private, and one of the fun things that people are doing now is like, here’s the jet I’m in, guess what kind it is? And just watching the people just– and there are guys in this group that literally can call the jet from like, with the craziest small little picture, like just seeing two seats. It’s like a picture of their family and you can see the seats they’re in and two behind it. And they know exactly what jet it is. It is incredible to me.

Pablo Della: It’s amazing.

Justin Donald: I mean, these guys upgrade their software a while ago. I’m not as experienced in the PJs, but it’s been a fun new addition for me over the last few years. And I can’t call them the way that these guys call them. I mean, they can call the model, they can call the size. I mean, it’s pretty impressive.

Pablo Della: Yeah. Yeah, it’s a great experience.

Justin Donald: All right. That was awesome. I love learning about upgrading your software and I’m going to continue to ask these questions because I love that you challenge me in that same way. And I think it’s great. I need people in my life that will challenge me and will get me out of my small thinking, the little Justin thinking from when he didn’t have as much money. So, I like it.

Pablo Della: Do you relate to that?

Justin Donald: Oh, yeah, 100%. I mean, and it’s like different levels where it’s like, I can remember the moment I was like, quit looking at prices on the menu. I remember the moment where it’s like, don’t look at the prices of wine, right? Like, sometimes I like a nice bottle of wine. It’s like, well, just pick the one that I actually want to drink. I remember, just not worrying about the price of an Uber, an Uber Black, an UberX, or whatever. I remember the time of like booking tickets. I remember I used to have my EAs price shop, and now it’s like, no, just buy this. Here’s what I want. I want an aisle seat. I want first class. I want these airlines. I want nonstop. I want– right? So, it’s like the checklist. And if we can’t get these things, then we need to find a map for flying private. If a commercial airline works, great, then let’s do that. And if not, let’s find other alternatives.

So, it’s like, that whole list. And I can come up with a– from how much your mortgage is or just all these things. Having a car payment, paying for a car in cash, like, we could just go on and on and on where it’s like, I used to spend so much time weighing the price, weighing the monthly payment. Is this a smart move? Am I being a good steward of my money? Is this wasteful? Like, just obsessing over it to like, wow, I am wasting so much time on things that don’t matter. This isn’t going to change my life or my lifestyle one way or the other. If I upgrade and it’s something I like, great, but it literally doesn’t move the needle one way or the other, except in feel, right, not financially.

And me spending energy, like the energy I spend on it, the time I spend on it, even the back and forth with my EA is just not worth it, right? So, it’s like how do we systematize things just to happen so that we can take less time, make better quality decisions, operate in a lifestyle equivalent of where we want to be. And it’s a game changer. It really is.

Pablo Della: I have a phrase, and I started saying this phrase in this mastermind, Amazon masterminds, at the beginning, like several years ago. We enter in these mansions, and I’ve never been in mansions before, right? But in the US, there’s these humongous houses, just everything is big in the US, right? So, I go to this mansion. And I was like, and I coined that phrase back then, I don’t know why and I keep saying it, like, this is exactly what we deserve. And every time that I enter in something that is magnificent, like this is exactly what we deserve, this is exactly. And it’s also a way of brainwashing me, brainwashing myself in, I mean, the poor mindset. It’s like, no, no, do you see, Pablito? This is what we deserve. This is exactly what we deserve. Let’s go. We are fine. By the way, I don’t know if you want to put this in the pod or not, but I wanted to ask you, do you know how many hours do you fly per year?

Justin Donald: I don’t, but I should probably calculate that out. I think I saw a spreadsheet from my EA that has, because we shared a family calendar, so all my travel is shared with my wife. So, I think we have 42 flights booked.

Pablo Della: 42.

Justin Donald: Yeah.

Pablo Della: And this is you alone, or this is also with your wife, you mean?

Justin Donald: Both.

Pablo Della: Okay. So, I think that it would be interesting how many hours you are flying private nowadays, or last year?

Justin Donald: And for me, I mean, I often have friends that will take me, so anytime, if that’s the case, I do it. That I pay, today, it’s probably only if there’s not a nonstop. So, if I can get there commercially and generally, I’ll sit first class or business class, if I get there commercially, I often will do that, unless I got a bunch of buddies going in on it, and then we’ll do that.

Pablo Della: I would encourage you to take a look, like a rational look on how many hours do you fly solo, how many hours are you flying with your family, because usually, mentally speaking, it’s easier to start with the family. Then making the jump to solo, for whatever reason, is more difficult, even though it should be the easiest, because…

Justin Donald: It should be, but you can see that it’s more, in theory, or you could justify that it’s more wasteful, right?

Pablo Della: Yes, but I would encourage you to just take just rational numbers, maybe not this year. Just look at last year. Okay? If we flew with the family 20 hours, okay, or 40 hours, if we have done that all in private, how much money? So, private, for simplicity, just multiply it by 8,000. It can be 7, it can be 6, it can be 10. But just do $8,000 per hour and just look if that number would make any difference in your budget last year. Most likely, it would not. And if that’s what the result that you end up getting, I would just encourage you just to give it a shot for one year.

Justin Donald: I like it.

Pablo Della: Just allocate for one year. And then, in 2027, you can say, Pablo, you’re an idiot. It was so stupid. I had such a horrible experience flying private. You know what? I’m going back to commercial, but I strongly encourage you just to do at least the exercise.

Justin Donald: Yeah. No, that’s good. And by the way, to everyone listening, like this is what I love about Pablo. You will push and you will challenge me to critically think and get out of my lane and help me again upgrade my software. So, I love this, and I’m always open to it, which is great. And I’m open to it on the show. Like, I actually love people hearing this and learning this, and they see you working on me and I think it’s great.

Pablo Della: That’s awesome.

Justin Donald: That’s so good. Now, we have to talk about this before we’re done, because you and I, we’ve riffed on this a ton, this whole idea of inflation being like, hey, let’s throw a softball out there. Let’s just call inflation this thing, this nice word, and make it good and have a number, this 2% that we need to hit that’s good for people. It’s good to be at 2%, but we’re at 2.7% or we’re at whatever. But we’ve softened the word inflation to be acceptable. It doesn’t trigger you in any way for most people.

But really, what is it? It’s debasement. It’s devaluation, right? It is actually taking what you have and making it worth less if you’re sitting in cash, right? I mean, the opposite is true if, as monetary supply expands, so do asset values, and that’s why it makes sense to own assets, right, own businesses, own real estate, own things that can appreciate really at the same timing and equivalency as what the monetary supply expands at.

So, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this, and I love that you’ve got a great background on this. Like, something that’s interesting to me is, you know US politics better than most of the people living in America. You weren’t born here. I’m always blown away at how much you know. You know economics better than all my American friends or most of my American friends. Now, you also live through a true debasement, a true hyperinflation. Like you live through something that we haven’t, and therefore, we take for granted this printing of money and don’t understand what it’s really doing long term, but I think we’ve got to talk about it. I think we need to educate people.

Pablo Della: Okay, let’s talk about it. So, first of all, the term inflation is a bullsh*t term. So, what do we mean with this? Things do not inflate. What happens is that the currency that we hold gets devalued, debased. The currency that we hold is worth less, and therefore, I need more of those little things, those monopoly papers to pay for this other thing. So, this is a very important thing, and I don’t think that it takes time to really understand that it’s not that this water is more expensive because the company is greedy or whatever. It’s like, no, no, no, the government is printing money and the market, the free market understands this, and therefore, needs more monopoly money to pay for that exact thing that we want to buy. That is very important also. The inflation number is a made-up bullsh*t number.

Justin Donald: Totally.

Pablo Della: How do I know that? Well, when you live in a country that experiences hyperinflation, you get to see how the government manipulates the things that go into the basket for the number to not to be as high as you can really feel it in your pocket, which I think that is something that Americans felt a little bit in the last five years when things went a little bit off the rails, but at the end of the day, the government doesn’t really want to get into a place where inflation spirals out of control because then people don’t really trust the currency, and then people just go and dump it and try to get something else.

So, in Argentina, for example, just to give a little story on this, so we had– well, that story is terrible, but just to make it a little bit short, the last 25 years, we had one to one, one peso, one US dollar. In 2001, 10 days after I finished high school, the government collapses. We have five presidents, and the government says, well, the one to one, no more one to one. Now, it’s going to be three to one. Therefore, 66% of the wealth got stolen. Meaning, oh, you had…

Justin Donald: Gone in that moment. Yeah, stolen in that moment.

Pablo Della: Sorry, but it’s not gone. It’s stolen.

Justin Donald: Thank you.

Pablo Della: These people are f*cking crooks, right? Stolen. They stole it. So, let me explain what that means, because most Americans are here, they will not understand this. If you had a hundred thousand dollars in the bank, now you don’t have a hundred thousand dollars anymore. Now you have a hundred thousand pesos, which by the way, you cannot touch yet because things are tough, so you cannot get access to your money. And if you somehow are able to get access, you can only buy $33,000.

Justin Donald: Wow.

Pablo Della: This is from one day to the other. So, what happened is– so that was my Pablo, welcome to the world. This is how things work here. I’m like, oh, okay. Massive unemployment. Impossible to get a job. So, then I eventually get a job. I start making some money. And the way that in Argentina, I don’t know how they save today, but the way that we used to save is any pesos that you have, you go and you buy dollars, which eventually, they made it illegal to buy more than XYZ amount of dollars. So, you had to go and you buy in what they call the blue market instead of the black market, but it’s an illegal market. Not because it’s illegal, it’s because the government deem it to be illegal. This is what happens with communist and socialist governments. They deem something that they don’t want that’s illegal, but that’s what in– are you going to hold the pesos that are eroding massively every single year? No, you’re going to go and you buy.

And I remember my dad, this is crazy. So, we went three to one, and then eventually, by the way, just, I’m going to– little game for the audience here. So, this is 25 years ago. We went one to one, then three to one. I’m going to ask you, Justin, but for the audience to think first is, how much is today? What is the conversion today? Justin, give it a shot.

Justin Donald: I mean, I want to say that it’s something crazy where it’s like you’re in the thousands, like 9,000 to 1, something like that.

Pablo Della: We are not that bad. We’re not Venezuela levels or Zimbabwe levels, but it’s a thousand.

Justin Donald: A thousand. Okay.

Pablo Della: Now, what happened also with the US dollar in those last 25 years.

Justin Donald: Well, the dollars lost. I mean, even just this last year lost 10% of its value. So, in 2025, it became worth 10% less. So, I mean, it’s large. I mean, it’s a big amount over the last 40 years.

Pablo Della: It’s a massive. So, my father, I remember like, “Hey, dad, in the TV, they are saying that the dollar now is nine to one, but it’s going to go back to six.” And my dad said, “Listen, when you have pesos, you go and you buy dollars. The price doesn’t matter.” That was the lesson. And so, I was always a saver. I never spent beyond what I had or what I made. So, the system was the following. We just grab the pesos, we sell it, we buy dollars, and we just stash it in the house. My favorite place, and by the way, I don’t do this anymore, but my favorite place was dirty socks, and I just put all the cash in dirty socks and I stashed it in the bottom of my closet. That’s it.

Justin Donald: Oh, my goodness.

Pablo Della: That’s how we save money because that was the hardest money that we could find back then. Now, we have other things, but that was our hedge to the currency debasement in Argentina.

Justin Donald: And I know a lot of people from other countries that had their currency debased and all currencies have been debased, but at extreme levels or hyperinflation levels that have very similar stories. And it’s unfortunate because it is robbery and it is theft, but you also learn some great lessons from it. And actually, this is a nice parlay into the same mindset that I think you learned from your dad that was buy dollars. I feel like you’ve shown up with that mindset on the buy Bitcoin, right? So, you’ve made the pivot from USD to Bitcoin, and I do want to talk about that. I know we’re running low on time, but I feel like we got to at least touch on that.

And by the way, the whole reason I wanted to get into debasement is because I had a conversation with someone and they said something about how like, “Oh, inflation is running rampant because of all the capitalists and entrepreneurs.” And I’m like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Record scratch. Let’s stop the record. Like, let’s get back to the fundamentals. Where’d you learn this?” And it’s like, “Oh, I learned this,” and I remember hearing crazy stuff during, with legacy media that was like, basically, they had their campaign for why inflation happened, and it’s because of people or political parties or business entrepreneurs or evil capitalists or whatever the thing is, because of COVID, because the business is shutting down. No, no, no, no, no. None of that. It happens for one reason and one reason only because more money was printed, making the dollars in circulation worth less, period.

So, I like getting on a little rant every now and again, get on my soapbox because people, I just want them to know, that is it, like your money is being debased for one reason. It’s because every government, and right now, the US government continues to print money, and that’s why we have the debt problem that we have. And maybe an episode for another day on all that, but I think we’ve got to at least talk. I’ve got a very complex estate and investment portfolio. I love investing. I’ve been investing for 26 years now. And I’m in all these different deals and I’ve got a team that helps me chase down my K-1s. I think I’m in over 400 individual deals, not even counting funds and all that. So, tons of work.

Pablo Della: I remember, Justin, when we were in one Austin meeting and I was sitting beside you and you were just scrolling infinitely in your file of deals. It just never ends.

Justin Donald: It’s so crazy. But then, to contrast that, I remember hearing your strategy and I was like, “Whoa, you are the polar opposite.” You’ve got these two things you really believe in and you’re all in on both of them. But I also think how beautiful, how simple is life. And your two things are Bitcoin and Tesla, and maybe there’s a few other things, but those are your two main things. And I know you’ve got a significant amount of your investible assets in those two specific assets. And I’d love to just talk about quickly why each. Why Bitcoin? Why Tesla? I mean, we’re in a Bitcoin chat group and we’re in a Tesla chat group, and so, I know exactly why, and I love being part of it and I love learning all this stuff. I would love to hear your thoughts.

Pablo Della: Yeah. So, first of all, I don’t have any Bitcoin in my house, so don’t come to my house because I’m going to shoot you. Period. That’s number one. Okay?

Justin Donald: That’s good.

Pablo Della: So, be careful. Never store any Bitcoin in your house. Don’t be an idiot.

Justin Donald: That’s right.

Pablo Della: Just keep it somewhere else, I don’t know, just one thing for the whole community to listen. Now, I got to say because I think this is important. When I was in my business starting to make money, 2015, 2016, and so on and so on, I realized, okay, now, I’m making money. What do I do with this money? And I labeled myself as a, I am a business person, I am an entrepreneur. I know how to make money. I don’t know how to preserve money. I had this bullsh*t mindset.

So, therefore, I’m just going to hire someone that is better at this than me. Okay, who is that? Well, you have bankers in Switzerland and this and this and that. Oh, wow, they look very smart. Their offices are very good. Wow. They definitely went to university. I didn’t. They definitely have a better haircut than I do. Okay, I’m sure that they are smart. I’m just going to give all my hard-earned money to these people. I’m sure that they’re going to do a great job because I need to focus on my business, and here is what. So, that was my belief.

2020, okay, I’m just going to tell the story because I think that it’s a very good mistake. So, I’m speaking with my banker and I said, “Hey, I don’t know. The market is weird.” This is end of 2019. I just learned about stop-losses. Okay? So, I’m like, “I’m going to want to put a stop-loss because if the market goes down, at least I get covered.” And I said, “Put a stop-loss on everything, 10% down the price that we are today.” And he’s like, “Okay.” So, then as we know, March, I think that was March, yeah, March 2020 hits, the whole market goes down.

Justin Donald: That’s right.

Pablo Della: And I was the smartest person in the room for about 10 days because I am sitting in cash. And here is my stupid thinking. Okay? I was like, well, let me check at the last two recessions. Okay, yeah, it went down, S&P went down 50%. I’m just going to wait until 50%. So, as we know, market went down 35%, I think. I’m sitting in cash. And then all of a sudden, market starts skyrocketing, and I am sitting in my hands with all cash and I’m like, what the f*ck just happened here?

Justin Donald: Yeah, it’s tough.

Pablo Della: And then I said to myself, all right, I figure out a lot of things in my life. I can definitely figure out this one. And that’s when I went deep to understand what was going on. And I just go back to the principle of know yourself and invest accordingly. So, I realized that I’ve been very successful playing very long games. Long games, meaning I want to move out of Argentina, have no idea how. I want to start selling these T-shirts online. I want to quit my job and do yoga. This is a long game. This is not, maybe tomorrow is going to be, this is a very long game. I want to travel the world. That is a big undertaking.

Justin Donald: That’s right.

Pablo Della: And I’ve been always successful when I do that. When I do short term, terrible. That never works for me. So, going in that journey of understanding myself, what worked for myself, what didn’t work for myself, and I also realized, I have enough money here. Definitely, I want more. Of course, yeah, I want this to keep multiplying, but what I don’t want is to lose my sleep. And I realized that for myself, having money invested in things that I don’t understand makes me lose my sleep. I don’t like it. I don’t want it. I hate it.

So, what are the things that I understand? And that’s how I started exploring, exploring, exploring, exploring. And eventually, this led to Tesla and Bitcoin. And yeah, those are two big investments, of course. But I personally like to have things very simple, even though these two investments are very complex investments with a lot of moving parts.

Justin Donald: That’s true.

Pablo Della: But for some reason, I’m like, I know that they are the best investments for me.

Justin Donald: Yeah. Well, and because of that, your portfolio is very simple, and I think, for those that don’t understand Bitcoin, Michael Saylor says it best, and you and I both have geeked out on Michael Saylor and Jack Mallers, two of the brightest people, Andreas Antonopoulos, I mean, those are probably the three people that have influenced me the most from a consumption standpoint, right? But Michael Saylor always says, “Invest a thousand hours into learning Bitcoin and you will be a believer.” And it is so true. The more you dig in, the more you learn, the more you understand it, it becomes glaringly obvious.

Pablo Della: Yes. And for me, the way that I understood Bitcoin originally was like, oh, Bitcoin is what the US dollar was for me when I was 20 years old. That is the hard money that I am trying to save because the government is eroding the value of the currency that I’m holding. Oh, this is the same but for the US dollar. Okay, I want this. Yes.

Justin Donald: And I think, most people don’t have the vantage point that you have. If you grew up in the US, your money has slowly debased. You haven’t experienced hyperinflation, so we take for granted this fiat sovereign currency and we don’t recognize what a lot of other people do that have gone through it and that have lived it, that have lived truly being locked out of their bank account, having bank runs, not being able to access your money, having your money be devalued overnight. I mean, the list goes on and on. So, I think from that standpoint, like you’ve got a great understanding, a greater understanding than my friends here in America, most Americans.

But what I don’t want people to miss is that our money is also still being debased. It’s just so slow over such a long period of time that we may not recognize it, but think back to what a Happy Meal costs versus today, think back to what cars cost, think back to what your parents or your grandparents bought their first home for. Like, you can actually trace it back and you can see side by side a very large percentage of inflation that has happened.

Pablo Della: Yeah, and this is why we are forced to invest. We are forced to put our money somewhere else that is not in the US dollar. Even if you don’t understand debasement, you understand that you need to do that. And if you dig deeper, then you will get to understand why you need to do that.

Justin Donald: Totally.

Pablo Della: Why is it a must? Like what, 2,000 years ago, people were investing in the stock market? Like no.

Justin Donald: Yeah, that’s good. This has been awesome. I just love hanging out with you. I love getting time. I can’t wait to go, head out into the desert, and do all the fun. Shoot them up, flame throwers, little off-roading vehicles like the dune buggies, like all the cool stuff that we’re going to end up doing, monster trucks, like all the things. We’re going to have an absolute blast.

Pablo Della: That’s going to be an experience.

Justin Donald: Where can people find out more about you, find out about your business for those that want to explore healthy supplementation? Tell us about you and your business and any place that we go to learn more about you, Pablo.

Pablo Della: Well, I don’t want to promote any of my business, so don’t go anywhere. I don’t need that you buy any of my products. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Justin Donald: I’m just always trying to hook my friends up.

Pablo Della: I appreciate it. But no, I have no interest on that. But what I would say is I started friends like you, like Anastasia, seeing you guys doing the podcast encouraged me to start the podcast with an incredible friend of ours, Peter. So, we have our podcast. In fact, thank you for introducing me to Charlie also because he’s doing everything for us now.

Justin Donald: I love it.

Pablo Della: So, the name of the podcast is Freedom Flip, and this is a conversation between two friends we meet every week and we just shoot the sh*t and we just talk about things that are extremely interesting to us. I don’t think that we speak about topics that are like what happened yesterday with Trump or anything like that. We speak about life and we really want to go, to dig deep. And what we tend to do, this is why we call it Freedom Flip is because we tend to flip the way that we are facing a situation which allows us to think differently, and by digging deep, what we end up doing is we end up finding truth. Truth is what sets us free. So, that is one way that you can go on and see. If you guys are liking what you are seeing, you can go and check out more there. And if you want reach out to me, you can find me in X, @pablodella. You can send me a message, whatever you want there.

Justin Donald: Awesome. Well, this has been so much fun. I always look forward to our conversations. This one did not disappoint. They’re all great. I love it. Wherever we go, whatever we do, there’s a lot of challenging of mindset and where we are and how we get to the next level. So, thank you for that. And I like to end every podcast episode with a question for our audience. So, if you’re watching this, if you’re listening to this, what is one step you can take today to move towards financial freedom and really move towards living a life that you truly desire on your terms? So, not by default, like most people, but a life by design. What’s something you can take from Pablo today, put into practice in your life that will make your life better? Thanks for joining, and we’ll see you next week.

Pablo Della: Love that.