The 3-Part Framework That Creates True Financial Freedom with Garrett Gunderson – EP 234

Justin Donald: What's up, Garrett? So good to have you back on the show again.

Garrett Gunderson: Justin, I'm so glad that we became friends and that you were nice to me when I was a total idiot, so that's good. I do blame COVID for us delaying our friendship, though.

Justin Donald: I agree and I like that. And, for me, I have lived in this judgment-free space in my life. It is so refreshing. It is so reinvigorating and my mission is to not hold anything against anyone and just say, “Hey, anything could have been happening at that time.” To me, it's just no big deal. I'm like let's give people the benefit of the doubt in whatever it is.

Garrett Gunderson: Yeah. We were going to meet and then I was going to be in Austin like six times that year. Didn't happen. And because you're introduced to me as a real estate investor, I was like, "Ah, well, I'll get around to it eventually,” not knowing what a stellar person you are and how brilliant you are. And I didn't know about the book and how aligned we are philosophically, which is rare. Because we're not just aligned on some philosophy. It's like it goes to Bitcoin, we’re even aligned.

Justin Donald: It’s deep.

Garrett Gunderson: I mean, to find someone that's like insurance, Bitcoin, creating recurring revenue to cover expenses, and then growing the assets instead of living off the income from active income to, you know, like all of those factors. I mean, and just that we're both huge advocates for saving tax in the most legal and ethical way. Like, you and I talk about every possible tax strategy. And a lot of times we're like, "That one's not down the fairway.” But it's interesting to look at, right? Like, we're willing to at least question it.

Justin Donald: Oh, yeah. I mean, if it's out there, I want to know about it. Now, I'm not going to talk about it on my show. I'm not going to share it with the Lifestyle Investor Mastermind. But that doesn't mean I won't research the heck out of it. And you and I, we kind of parlay some responsibilities. You go to some of your advisors. I go to some of my advisors. You take a deep dive. I take a deep dive. But it's a pleasure to be friends with you. We've done so many things together. In fact, I believe I have interviewed. I have less than 10 people I've interviewed twice on the podcast. I think you're the first person -- actually, I know you're the first person that I've ever interviewed three times on the podcast. So, for anyone tuning in…

Garrett Gunderson: Third time's a charm. This is the time.

Justin Donald: For anyone tuning in, it's because Garrett is the real deal, and I just love hanging out with you, buddy, and you've spoken at our live events more than anyone else as well. So, we love giving you preferential treatment. I love going out and hanging with you in Park City.

Garrett Gunderson: Even if we're getting stem cells, we're hanging out getting stem cells and IVs.

Justin Donald: We really were. This, by the way, is a true story. We went to EastWest Health or our mutual friend, Regan Archibald, who owns that facility and we have a special discount for Lifestyle Investor Mastermind members and he gives us preferred terms on peptides and on stem cells, and all different types of therapies and modalities. So, Garrett and I decided to schedule our time at the same time so we could get stem cells and IVs and just chill together and talk about life.

Garrett Gunderson: That’s real friendship.

Justin Donald: That's right, doing stem cells together.

Garrett Gunderson: I mean, you hosted that Lifestyle Investor event and it's funny because you sent me an invite. You're like, “Hey, man, I'm going to be in Utah. Come on out.” And then Regan just signed up to do my immersion, my one-on-one. He is like, “Hey, I have this event coming up with Justin Donald. Will you come and watch me speak and give me a critique?” I'm like, “I was already coming, man. Justin already brought me in.” So, yeah, he's such a good dude. Love that guy.

Justin Donald: He is. Well, I'm excited for this episode today because I feel like we've talked about, I don't know, a trillion things. But what I'm most excited about right now, we at Lifestyle Investor are rolling out our best of whole life. And this is like a deep dive in whole life insurance, specifically dividend-paying whole life insurance by mutually held companies. And you and I have so much content, so much back and forth, so much just, I mean, open conversation around this. And then not to mention, in Lifestyle Investor, we have these preferred vendors for whatever the niche is. If you're looking to sell a business, if you're looking to buy a business, if you're looking to get your health right, if you're looking longevity, whatever it is, we have these preferred vendors.

And so, life insurance is no different. And out there, most life insurance is garbage, right? Most people don't structure it right. Most companies aren't great companies. And so, what I love is that our preferred vendor list, not only are they world-class at what they do, but they're people that you know that you have introduced me to.

Garrett Gunderson: They're all my licensees. I've trained these guys. Yeah.

Justin Donald: That's right.

Garrett Gunderson: They're brilliant.

Justin Donald: We have audited them, we've gone a deep dive but, I mean, these are people you know well, you're friends with, you've coached, you've mentored, or you've partnered with. And so, it's pretty cool to have our just world-class line of whole-life practitioners for Lifestyle Investor.

Garrett Gunderson: Yeah. You and I sitting down for two and a half hours of Lifestyle Investor Live and talking life insurance, I mean, some people are going to be, "Wow, like two and a half hours?” But what we're talking about is, how do we create more choice in the future so you could increase your cash flow 20, 30, maybe as much as 50% on other assets? And I call that, well, with the Rockefellers, you’re turning small assets into big assets and it actually allows you to be more charitable, which you're a very charitable person. Actually, that's one of the more fun we've had was doing that charity auction that I got up on stage with you and we raised some money to help out with a great organization and help people that get out of the sex trafficking and slavery.

But the bottom line is if you have these policies in place, number one, with an investor like Justin, who acquires a lot of assets, he has a capital account that gives him access to money that doesn't have capital depreciation. So, if the market changes, he's still stable, has tax advantages along the way, and it's going to beat any bond portfolio over a 30-year period of time. It has for the last 200 years but it comes with this death benefit. Now, that death benefit, most people think you have to die to benefit, but you can actually utilize that to unlock lazy assets to essentially coordinate so you could spend down other assets at a quicker rate or donate something that then when you die, stays with a charity but while you're alive, you pay no tax, get a tax deduction, and have a higher cash flow but the death benefit replaces it.

And most people don't do that until it's too late. I mean, Justin, you work with so many successful people, as have I, and one of the worst pieces of advice I see is they meet with a financial person that says, "Buy some term insurance and invest the difference.” Then they get to a point of having an estate issue. They have an estate tax issue. They meet with an attorney. The attorney says, “Hey, you need to buy a permanent insurance policy,” but now they're buying it when they're older and where their health might not be at the top rating and their cash value doesn't grow quite at the way that we're looking at the way that we would design it.

So, we're looking at merely an asset allocation decision that's an allocation that replaces maybe other savings or fixed-income instruments that has access to that capital and a death benefit that unlocks other assets. And What Would the Rockefellers Do? I think might be the definitive book on the topic when it comes down to specifically insurance. I know Lifestyle Investor has an appendix that just dials in so many things, but that book's kind of like all around how to utilize insurance. And so, I'm happy to hook Lifestyle Investor people up with that, with a copy of that, you just let me know. We can have them DM me or something and say, “Justin Donald,” and I'll be like, "All right, you get the book. It's yours.”

Justin Donald: Love it. And you just did a rewrite on that along with a bunch of your other books. I mean, I love all your books. I think you've got just an incredible mind and gift for writing, and really an unconventional approach that is really refreshing. But it's backed with data. I mean, it's backed with like what does the wealthiest family here in the US do, the Rockefeller family, for generation after generation after generation and this is what they use. And the irony here is we're not even getting into life insurance today. So, it's actually funny that we're chatting about this but it's hard not to whenever you and I get together because I just want people to know the power and the benefits of it.

Garrett Gunderson: Because if you're with the wrong company or you don't design it properly or you have misinformation, which most people do, and you don't have the right type, it ends up being a major cost to you and it can diminish freedom and access to capital. So, I do think it's an important topic that I'm so glad that we see eye to eye on it, I mean, that we've gone and taught on this and have a bunch. I have 27 whole life policies because I started when I was 19 years old and $50 a month, my first one, that doesn't get you too far, but it was just a start to later ones being a lot bigger than that. And I've used that capital over and over.

As a matter of fact, just last week I decided, "You know what, we're putting in a backyard.” It's more than I paid for my first home. And I'm like, “I'm just going to pull that from my cash value and then I could just put it back into my cash value whenever I want.” But it's super easy getting that cash there. And I don't have more than 30 days at a bank of cash. I just don't. I don't know why I would have more than just paying the basic bills because I've got all this cash in my cash value and then other assets. But I just think savings accounts and checking accounts, they're just not that valuable.

Justin Donald: They’re a thing of the past. I mean, you earn a greater return. Your money's safer. It’s being managed by the most sophisticated people in the world on money that are also like the safest, most conservative approach with money so that you don't lose it, it's a guaranteed return, and then you can borrow against it and use it elsewhere, like what you just talked about. And I love that. And the whole idea here, what did the Rockefellers do? They formed a family bank. They didn't use conventional banks unless they were borrowing money. They use their life insurance policies, specifically their dividend-paying whole life insurance policies to create their bank that they would borrow from, that they would pay for education, they would buy homes, they would start businesses, they would buy other real estate and other assets. And you outlined that really well in your work.

Garrett Gunderson: It's interesting because not only did the Rockefellers utilize this strategy where they have the right trust because they have a philosophy, "Own nothing, control everything.” So, for a lot of Americans, that might be a domestic asset protection trust where it's irrevocable, but you control the distribution trustee so you still have access to capital while protecting it from creditors or any financial predator or anything like that. So, that's important to have, the trust, and then also have the insurance. But, Justin, all of the Rockefeller executives from way back in the day are still passing on money from generation to generation using the same methodology.

So, it wasn't just this uber-wealthy family, it was also families that utilized the same technology or insight or system of the Rockefeller method that helped them perpetuate and protect that wealth. And so, I think that a lot of people think about legacy when it's late. And people that prepare for legacy late end up paying too much in tax or don't actually raise their kids in the way that they maybe would prefer because they're busy or they don't do some of these things that integrate the most important philosophies and ideas. And that's what I love about Lifestyle. I spoke there and you've had other people speak on the family side of legacy, not just the money side, right?

Like, we definitely talk about the money side, but there's also the notion of family retreats and how to have those retreats, and even Chris, who's a mutual friend of ours, that spoke, talked about those kinds of concepts. So, I love that kind of human element to it, but I also think it's just amazing that it's simpler than most people think, it's available, and if you just do a little bit now, it has such a big payoff in the future.

Justin Donald: Yeah. And something really interesting that you may or may not know that I thought I would share just you made me think of it is back in the day when trusts were first established, basically, the max time you could get in a trust was a life plus 20 years. So, generally, they would approximate people's lives at 80 years and then you had 20 years to it. So, let’s call it a 100-year trust. And so, these original trusts that were put in place when trust became a thing at the foundation, this is 1925 when the Rockefellers and many other families, JP Morgans, when they all put these in place. So, what a lot of people don't know is that 100 years is up this year.

It's 2025, so a lot of these trusts are actually going to dump out and they have to spend these assets and even move them into other places but these dollars are going to get spent. So, part of this great wealth transfer of anywhere from like an $80 trillion to $105 trillion is what I've heard from baby boomers to millennials is a portion of the Rockefeller estate and assets. And so, it's going to be interesting to see what happens and how that moves the markets because they are likely going to have to create a new entity structure if they haven't already. It's my understanding that a lot of these families have not yet. And they're waiting until the very end to do it. And I think a lot of wealth is going to transfer hands. And I think a lot of assets are going to transfer hands.

Garrett Gunderson: Right. There are still states that have, like, after four generations, it forces you out where South Dakota is a perpetual trust. So, it's important in the Rockefeller method that you have states where there's a perpetual trust and you don't have to be a resident of that state. That's not what's important. Every state has different laws when it comes to how soon there's seasoning of the trust where it's no longer something a creditor can get to so some states at six months, others it's three years. And then there's also just the nature of the trust. And in some states, it's more important to have more than one trustee, like a distribution trustee versus an insurance trustee versus an investment trustee. And by separating that can keep it tax-free perpetually versus potentially triggering that.

So, it's important to have the right attorney to navigate some of these things. And I don't want it to sound complicated. It's actually easier if you just know which state and what people to put in and you just have to have the right person that understands how to implement that but it makes a huge difference.

Justin Donald: That's right. And by the way, these are all the new rules of trust. So, back in the day, none of these rules existed. The trusts were kind of standard across the board. I don't even know if every state did them. But today, you have an advantage depending on what state you form in, right? There's pros and cons to all these different ones. But Nevada, South Dakota, Wyoming, like there's a bunch of these states that really have some pretty interesting pros to using that state's, I guess, trust or a state system, especially for those that are looking to do adapt a domestic asset protection trust and others that are like it, which most of the brilliant estate and legal minds will tell you that that is the best structure inside the United States. And many people say that rivals even these international structures, these Caribbean island structures, these other, I mean, island structures like the Cook Islands, et cetera.

Garrett Gunderson: Well, the thing is it just doesn't have the same precedent because we're talking 2013 is when they really were established. And it was the United States saying, "We're tired to seeing all this money go offshore.” Now, the Cook Islands, a lot of people call it the Crook Islands because there's a lot of people that move their money to the Cook Islands that actually have something to fear.

Justin Donald: They are hiding. Yes.

Garrett Gunderson: They have done something, hiding. And then Nevis is another place where it's been very solid, but sometimes that asset protection offshore makes it hard to get loans. It makes it hard to get access to your money. That's part of why it's so protected where the domestic asset protection trust gives a little bit more ease. Now, since we don't have as much time, we don't know will it hold up to the same level as these others. But I look at asset protection like a hurdle race. If someone's got to jump hurdles, if there's not enough distance between hurdles, then you can't jump them. And if we have the right corporate structure, the right asset protection trust, the right liability protection, all of these different factors, that it just becomes that if someone comes to sue, they're like, "This is an entanglement that's hard to get to,” because the person doesn't own anything.

And, look, there are so many lawsuits, like over 20 million in the United States per year. A lot of those are frivolous, and we don't have tort reform that says, "If I sue someone and I'm completely frivolous about it, it goes into settlement judgment, I don't owe the legal fees.” In the UK, you have to pay the legal fees if you go to sue and it turns out that the other person wasn't guilty. And so, it's important to protect your assets because of that. And the more successful you are, the more like, look, I'll be really candid. When I hit New York Times with Killing Sacred Cows, there was a couple that I met once. Because my business partners died in ’06, they were clients and I met with every one of their clients and just said, “Hey, let me make sure I get you in the right hands or let me answer some questions.”

We just didn't have the bandwidth. We lost two partners, right? And I met with them once. They asked me about refinancing a house and investing in something. I just showed him the tactical aspects of it without doing the analysis of where they were investing, didn't understand where they were investing. They lost money in that investment. They went to sue the person they lost money with, but that person went bankrupt. Well, this guy was an editor, saw that my book hit the New York Times, so he sued me. Now, I met with them once. And, again, it got dismissed in summary judgment, which meant it was frivolous. But the reality was it's just because you had success…

Justin Donald: You still have to pay those legal fees.

Garrett Gunderson: Yeah. I was the target. And so, it's important to shield yourself. Especially like, Justin, you have a podcast, you're well known with Lifestyle Investor, you're a very successful investor so we're putting ourselves out there. And I don't want to be afraid of putting myself out there. I want to be open, authentic, real. I want to share everything. And the thing is there are just certain people that if they don't feel like they have a great future, they often get litigious. And there are legitimate legal suits out there. That's what's frustrating is when you see people move to Florida so they have a Homestead Act when they did something egregious, but there is claw-back on those types of things, right?

So, if you're doing the right things, it's just making sure that your money's protected is another important part. I'll give you some space, but I want to talk one more piece of insurance before we move on.

Justin Donald: Okay. One thing I'll say is for those of you listening that you say, "Well, I don't have a big audience like Garrett or Justin. I don't have a big podcast. I don't have these big books,” I'm just going to tell you, it is smart to get your house in order anyway because any little thing can trigger someone to sue you. And we just had this happen to one of our mastermind members where their 16-year-old son got in a fender bender. Literally, no damage. The people actually said that they were fine. No one was hurt. It was such a small like tap that there was no damage on either car, okay?

Well, months later, after they figured out who the parents were of this child, because they were also on that insurance, and they're like, “Ooh, these people have money. We should come after them.” And they falsified some medical reports and did all this stuff and now all of a sudden they're coming after them. Now, luckily, things are going to end up fine and insurance is going to cover it, but it's totally manufactured. And so, the point I'm trying to make like, yeah, for myself, of course, I'm going to take care of myself because I am out there in the public spotlight much more so than I ever thought I would be, or even than I ever wanted to be but I have a burning desire to share this message and this understanding and the connections that I have. I want people to learn and grow and create financial freedom.

So, of course, I got my estate right and, of course, if someone ever wanted to come after me, they're going to see all the hurdles and realize that there's no way they can do anything. And I think that that's really important that any attorney that there are these predatory attorneys out there that just go after people and they're going to say, "Wow. It's going to cost you a lot of money and you're not going to get anywhere.” And I feel good that you and I, we have that in place. But for those of you that feel like, "Oh, well, what would I need to have this set up for?” it's any little thing, a slip and fall on one of your properties, one of your children who just got their driver's license. I mean, it can literally be anything.

Garrett Gunderson: And they could actually get into a million-dollar issue. They could actually have an incident. And this is why insurance is important, especially if you're a business owner policy, or anyone, an umbrella policy that sits on top of your car in your home because if you insure the catastrophic, not the inconsequential, what I mean by that is you transfer the big risks that could derail you, and it's the biggest bang for your buck. An umbrella policy might be $250 a year for a million dollars of coverage. And so, you're saying, “I want the insurance company's attorneys on the hook, not my attorneys. They're the ones that are covering this and paying for this. Not me.” And that helps you to preserve your estate. So, it's really important to look at those things.

Justin Donald: 100%. Off air, we are talking about the trifecta. And I feel like we have to share the trifecta today. Like this, to me, I love, sometimes we'll just have a conversation and it's just in passing. It's just like, “Hey, how are things going? Tell me about your family. What's going on with you?” And then we just stumbled upon something. And it's not even like we're trying to talk about what we're going to talk about on the show. We're just catching up. But when something's so good, it's like we got to dive into that. So, talk about the trifecta. This is so powerful.

Garrett Gunderson: This was a training I was doing for my team just this week, and that's where I thought of like the trifecta because it's like, how do I make this really digestible and easy? And it was. If we're going to be stewards, if we're going to be able to have wealth, it comes down to three factors. Number one is being financially fit. That's the first. Financial fitness means your financial house is in order. Like, if I went quickly over the overview of that, it means that you've transferred risk. You know if you have the right deductibles with your car, home, and liability insurance and transfer the maximum amount that gives you the best coverage or the right disability insurance or medical insurance or life insurance or business owner policies.

When it comes to taxes, you've reviewed your last three years' taxes and made sure that you didn't overpay and amend your returns if you did. You have a proactive strategy that you meet with every quarter with your tax strategist to maximize your savings. You have the right corporate structure. And the right corporate structure might mean that you can sell your business up to $10 million tax-free through Section 1202. Or the wrong corporate structure might mean that you miss out on that or that you pay more tax in how you pay yourself because you don't know about Section 199A and that tax advantage.

So, the corporate structure not only shields you from, by the way, people that are on Schedule C have a 400% higher chance of audit than someone who's actually incorporated and you have unlimited liability when you're not incorporated. So, I get frustrated that every now and again an accountant will tell someone not to incorporate. And I'm like, "What?” First off, they're an accountant. An attorney is who you talk to about this kind of stuff. The accountant is going to do the tax strategy aspect. So, it's looking at your cash flow reporting, having the right credit score, so it's simply having your financial house in order.

It's the 10 rules that Justin has in Lifestyle Investor that, "Have you got your principal back out from your investment so you're writing with house money?” That's being financially fit. You know what you're doing. You have a plan. You have removed your blind spots, you know where you're set, you know where you're not set, and you address those. That creates financial stability and strength. And a lot of people aren't financially fit because they don't have a plan and because they just simply handle things when they come up and they're overly reactive and therefore they can't handle financial stress, that confiscates their wealth, that sets them back. Because, Justin, we're all in store for financial surprises. It's just that we can address 90% of them not to have to derail or destroy us simply with the proper planning.

Justin Donald: Yeah, I love that. So, trifecta. Number one is financial fitness, right? Number two...

Garrett Gunderson: Financial independence. I mean, this is your jam. You're world-class on this. You've lived it, you've taught it, and it's where you create enough recurring revenue from assets to cover your expenses. You and I know the world's indoctrinated in a very dogmatic philosophy of accumulation. Set it and forget it. Invest early, often, and always, dollar-cost average, wait for 30 years for compound interest to kick in, neglect cash flow along the way. That is a slow, tedious process where people try to save 10% of their money, chase a 10% return in a public market, and after 30 years find out 95% of the time it doesn't function.

Financial independence is simply saying, "How do we create velocity and cash flow?” We begin with efficiency. Plug financial leaks by not overpaying on tax, not overpaying on interest, not overpaying by non-performing fees with our investments, not overpaying by improper insurance design, and then reinvesting those dollars to create cash flow. We pick out whether it's real estate, businesses, or intellectual property, whatever it is that creates cash flow for us to cover our expenses. That means now every active dollar we earn can build more assets instead of just 10% of that building assets and it's creating cash flow, which gives you this power.

Because like, Justin, Lifestyle Investor wouldn't be half of what it is if you had to take the income that you made to cover your lifestyle, but instead, you take the income that you make to grow assets, which has made you a better investor, which gives you more exposure to teach people about things and that you've been able to take money to build the book and the brand and all of that kind of stuff. Most people would go, "How did you build it so fast?” Part of your secret, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, is you were financially independent. And you didn't just say, “I'm going to be financially independent.” You said, "What would it take to get $2 of cash flow for my assets for every dollar I have to spend?”

Because then it just really exponentially grows and it seems almost impossible for someone that's living the accumulation. So, financial independence is unfortunately not being taught in the world of finance by enough people. That's why you and I are so aligned, and it's so powerful because it is an economic engine that just accelerates.

Justin Donald: Yeah. And before we get to the third step, I want to just elaborate on the power of financial independence. I look at this as if you look at financial independence versus net worth, like financial independence eats net worth for breakfast, lunch, and dinner all day long just runs laps around. I've shared this before, but I had financial independence before I ever was a millionaire because my expenses, my cost of living was covered in our passive income before my net worth was even millionaire status. And so, I think it's so important to focus on those numbers first because net worth is more paper money. It can change. It's that you get very little utility out of it in most instances. It's tied up, it's locked up in the market, it's locked up in your business until you have some sort of a liquidity event.

So, to me, it's not the greatest way of doing it. And I also would say I get bothered a lot by people that promote like they are an expert at something and like they have done something so much on social media when they make their money based on those products that they sell. So, for example, there are people that talk about financial freedom. They talk about investing, they talk about buying different assets. And they didn't make their wealth from doing that. They found a niche. They started making good money. They kept growing it. Now, they make a ton of money on a thing that they're not even an expert at. And that is just unfortunate because a lot of people, they assess someone's success based on their social media following, which is the wrong parameter or the wrong way to diagnose someone's success.

I want to know that you're successful in the thing that you're teaching on your own independently without any of the income that comes from teaching that thing. And I want to know that you have 10 to 20 plus years in it, like you are a true expert. Most social media influencers, most people with a large social media following and presence, they are great marketers. They are really great at branding. They are really great at customer acquisition. They're really great at sales, and they can sell a lie to the general public that doesn't know like how to accurately vet these people. And so, I do think that's an important point. Like, you've got to be really careful who you're listening to.

I say all the time, like from a health standpoint, I'm very conscientious of what I eat, how much I'm lifting, the type of cardio, the type of HIIT workouts, like all the things that, the supplements, everything. I'm very conscientious about what I put in my body from a physical standpoint and I think others are too, but what I think most people don't think about is what is the content you're feeding your mind. What is the content you're feeding your intellect? What is the content you're feeding just your emotional IQ, your relational IQ? And what you're consuming is going to have a huge impact on who you're becoming, the decisions you make, the success or lack thereof that you have.

Garrett Gunderson: Well, and that takes us to the third part of the trifecta. Financial freedom is a perspective. Financial freedom is a state of being. It's when money's no longer the primary reason or excuse you would do or not do something. It's a consideration, just not the consideration. So, I believe that wealth is an emotion and if we don't have the ability to feel fulfilled, enjoy our life, and be engaged, most of finance is teaching people to wait 30 years to finally enjoy their life. When they get to retirement, then they finally get to enjoy life when they're too damn old to enjoy it. So, my belief is like, what if you create the life you don't want to retire from?

And what if we start to understand the money blocks inside someone's mind? They don't feel worthy, they don't feel like they have enough, they can't afford it, these kinds of notions. See, prosperity is either spoken or poverty is spoken because it's an expression of the internal belief and energy system that we have in our body. And far too many people, even if they have net worth, don't always have financial freedom because they feel poor because they don't know how to convert that to cash flow. They don't know how to enjoy their life along the way. And it's always about one day, someday in the future. And there are just too many money blind spots and money blocks that prevent them from actually feeling wealthy.

I'd say wealth is more about being present than it is about net worth. We know that cash flow is far superior to net worth. I mean, I wrote about it in Sacred Cows. You wrote about it in Lifestyle Investor before we even knew each other. We were both on that same message. And your net worth will rise just because you have more cash flow for sure but the cool thing is you being there before you had the millionaire status. I mean, I would much rather be financially independent than have dots on a piece of paper telling me I'm wealthy. Because, Justin, a lot of people don't know how to transfer their money into progress.

Meaning like you've developed Lifestyle Investor, the book, the mastermind, all of these things. You took and developed the human life value that teach people. And so, it wasn't just like you handed your money over not knowing what it was about in a diversified mutual fund, hoping for the best. You bought trailer parks and learned the process of that. What does that look like? You learned how to do real due diligence and say, "What does this look like when I invest? How do I mitigate my risk?” See, that comes from a mindset. And without the right mindset around money, we'll never be financially free. Financial freedom is a choice in the moment.

Justin Donald: Yep. 100%. I mean, yes. Amen and amen. I love everything you're saying and we're so in alignment on that. And I do think that there are different levels of this financial freedom. Like, you can be financially free to the point that you can live a good life and cover your life but a lot of people have a hard time refraining from lifestyle creep. And so, some people hit financial freedom and then they keep spending and their lifestyle then gets more expensive and they fall outside of lifestyle freedom, right? So, if they had to cut back, they could cut back. And so, some people, the goalposts constantly move on net worth, cash flow, all these different things. But I do think you have to be careful on what you're putting so much stock in, if you're putting too much stock in net worth, if you're putting too much stock into keeping up with everyone else.

Garrett Gunderson: Materialism to the point of…

Justin Donald: Yes.

Garrett Gunderson: Because the thing is financial freedom is an internal game. And if we get caught in the external outcome of everything, that's the net worth, that's the owning, then the stuff owns us and we no longer own it. Like, I bought this cabin, which I love, but then I bought a second one and now I'm like, "Is that too much?” Because now it's something to manage. And why did I decide to get that? Was that really a good investment? I mean, I've been cash-flowing it for the last three and a half years. But now that person's ready to move, I have to go, "Do I want to be a steward over this? Would it infringe upon my peace of mind? Does it allow me to be productive? Or does it infringe upon my productivity as I manage that? Who do I have to hire?”

And so, this comes down to a concept of investor DNA. Like, what are your values? What are your competencies? What are the things that drive you? And we all know that risk isn't in the investment, it's in the investor. So, how do you become a better investor? Well, you become a better investor by developing your skillset. And financial intelligence is an exponential skill set that, if people skip, they will never be financially free because they'll feel out of control. They'll feel a sense of complexity and chaos and confusion that will confiscate their feeling wealthy. And so, the good news with investor DNA is you don't have to be good at every type of investment there is out there. You just have to get really good at a few things and you can get involved in things that you actually have interest and intrigue.

Like, for Justin and I, I love writing books and that's a piece of real estate for me every time. I look at Justin's life since he created intellectual property, and I think it's exponentially grown because of the relationships and how rich he is with those relationships that he didn't know before it brought us together. But that's not for everybody. Other people are really good at acquiring businesses. I don't like to acquire businesses. I like to start businesses. I have acquired a business before. It was good overall. It just was turbulent in that integration process. So, sometimes I just like to start them from scratch. Other people just like to buy them. They're really good at that kind of turnaround. You have to kind of discover who you are.

But if what you do isn't in your capability, it lowers your confidence, or it becomes something that is a distraction disguised as an opportunity, we have to really understand what to say no to and what to say yes to in order to be truly financially free long term.

Justin Donald: Oh, I love it. Hey, this is the type of content I love getting into. You are spitting gold and it's just wonderful to hear. By the way, as we're wrapping things up here today, I got to tell you, the dinner that we auctioned off at the Lifestyle Investor Live event that you came up and made a spectacle out of and did a great job raising money, that all went to a great charity saving kids, saving real human lives. But one of the things that got auctioned off, which is funny because this wasn't actually originally on the auction list, was a dinner with my wife, Jennifer, and I. And I would've never in a million years thought this thing would've been bid up the way that it was bid up. I mean, I actually think I'm trying to remember what the total was that it got bid to. I think it ended up being a total of $14,000.

Garrett Gunderson: I think it was 17, so it might've been 14, 17. That's what I was thinking.

Justin Donald: Yeah, right around there, somewhere in that range. And so, I've been planning this dinner and, by the way, I hosted this killer South by Southwest dinner for a handful of people and it was awesome. We only sold a handful of seats. We kept it small and intimate and it went so well that I decided we're going to do the same thing. So, I hired that same chef. It's an Argentinian chef that is incredible, makes this awesome food. I'm bringing back Mario, my personal sommelier. And we have a relationship now with Cathiard Vineyards out in Napa. They also have a chateau out in Bordeaux that I just absolutely love. And we are going to have one heck of an event. And so, for those of you tuning in, I'm excited because I like to do fun stuff with people that I love and enjoy and appreciate. And Will and Avery are coming and Resh and Sirem are coming.

Garrett Gunderson: I met them through you. Yeah. They came and did an immersion with me because of you.

Justin Donald: Yeah. And it's like how do I keep incorporating my friends in the fun things that we do, right? And so, you're coming and Jeff is coming. So, we just have an action-packed event here. And by the way, that's in what? Three weeks as I look at the calendar.

Garrett Gunderson: Yeah, man. I mean, it worked out well that I'm coming in to speak at an event and I was like, "Is there any way we can coordinate that?” So, it's going to be good to do that dinner and just be able to hang out with you. I pretty much hang out with you every time I come to Austin unless that one time I overdosed on peptides that our buddy, Regan, gave me because I didn't read the instructions and I could barely get out of bed. But I've learned those are very serious things. Don't mess with them.

Justin Donald: Well, you missed out because that time you were out and dripping and so we were going to invite you out to the ranch and play some pickleball.

Garrett Gunderson: I think you hurt your ankle though. I probably saved myself from an injury with your intensity on the pickleball court.

Justin Donald: You may have. You may have. I'm healed up now. Thank goodness.

Garrett Gunderson: Here's my summary. If you want to get financially fit, I'll just hook people up with a financial health assessment. That's my gift. If you want to become financially independent, you got to apply for the Lifestyle Investor. I'll help you get fit and get your financial house in order. Justin will teach you to become a much better investor, and you'll be able to see investments to create that financial independence. If you want to be financially free, you spend more time with guys like Justin and I because we challenge your thinking. I mean, you come out, do my immersion with me one-on-one. I do two of those a month. I mean, there's been so many people from the Lifestyle community that's come out and done that.

Half the time we're working on what are the money blocks, building out their entire plan, helping them organize everything they're learning from Justin and his community to get it efficiently implemented. It's quite the process, but I think that we make a really good team that way.

Justin Donald: We do. We're an amazing one-two punch. I feel like we complement each other well and the feedback that we get is fantastic. And I'm just going to say the third part of that punch that most people don't think about when they join, I have a lot of people that join the Lifestyle Investor Mastermind, and a lot of them, they're joining because they want to get more time with me.

Garrett Gunderson: They meet so many cool people, right?

Justin Donald: That's the thing. They're just blown away.

Garrett Gunderson: Everyone talks about the room.

Justin Donald: They’re blown away by the members. And by the way, the members dwarf me on every level in impressiveness. If you look at the…

Garrett Gunderson: I mean, I don't know. You're pretty stellar. And by the way, I knew where you're going with that without us talking about it before because I've been there how many times? I've been there so many times.

Justin Donald: You have. But it's like the collective wisdom of that group and the collective sophistication, the collective expertise. It's just unparalleled to any other group or any other just collection of people, peer group, mentors. It's really just a fun place. So, what I will say is it's not always about what you learn from Garrett or myself, but it's about who you're allowing yourself to be exposed to. And it's these people that you don't even know yet or the small little just mindset shifts and little things you pick up along the way that end up becoming game changers.

Garrett Gunderson: Yeah, so I love it. I'm happy to hook anybody up with What Would the Rockefellers Do audiobook and the financial health assessment, like, they just got to let me know it's Justin Donald. If you put in the words ‘Justin Donald’ in my Instagram DM, I'm hooking you up with those two things for free. And I know I could support people.

Justin Donald: Love it. Where else can people go to learn more about you?

Garrett Gunderson: I'm actually finally deciding to do some social media, so I do have a YouTube channel, GarrettGundersonTV, Youtube.com/garrettgundersontv or Garrett.Live. My personal website, GarrettGunderson.com, has a lot of stuff on it. I write a blog. I personally write it. There's no AI that's doing it for me. I just love that process. And there's a lot of goodies in there. You could see my comedy special on Amazon Prime or just if you click through the website, you’ll see some of the stuff.

Justin Donald: And it's good. It's funny.

Garrett Gunderson: So, yeah, check out GarrettGunderson.com and GarrettBGunderson

on Instagram.

Justin Donald: Well, Garrett, thanks for your time. Thanks for being a great friend. I'm excited for you to come out. And actually, we're going to do another podcast live in person with our good friend, Brad Weimert, who I share a studio with.

Garrett Gunderson: The trifecta right there, me, you, and Brad. Man, we're keeping the trifecta rolling.

Justin Donald: Heck, yeah. Well, I love ending every episode with a question to our audience, and that question is the same every time. What is one step you can take today to move towards financial freedom, to move towards a lifestyle that you desire, so not by default, most people live by default, but a lifestyle by design? Thanks! And we'll catch you next week.