Why a $2.5B Exit Didn’t Lead to Happiness with Alex Bean – EP 254

Justin Donald: What’s up Alex? Good to have you on the show.

Alex Bean: I am ready. Let’s go. Nice. Thanks for having me.

Justin Donald: Yeah, this is fun. Well, you and I, we got a chance to first connect, you came to Austin, which is great. You’re part of Tiger 21 and I’m obviously part of that too. And it’s fun crossing paths and seeing mutual connections. But you shared with our chapter content that I thought was a game changer and totally revolutionary. And it’s some things that I’ve done in my own personal life. I’ve got some frameworks and we’ve got this marriage and family planning day and we do these goals and dreams, workshops, and so, I’ve been all about this for about 20 years or so, trying to teach people and show people and do this inside of my own family. And so, when I saw your frameworks and what you’re building and what you’re teaching, I just knew this was so aligned for our audience, and so, I’m excited to dive in.

Alex Bean: Yeah, so am I. I mean, 20 years you have some time on me. I haven’t been doing this as long as you, but I went through some personal experiences, which I’m sure we’ll talk through that. I just felt like I wanted to articulate what I was feeling and hopefully, give a little bit of a playbook to others and see if we could get through it together. And yeah, so it’s been a fun journey. Let’s jump into it.

Justin Donald: All right. Well, I think you’ve got a really fun story because to me, you’ve probably had a lot of ahas along the way, but I think one of the greatest ahas is when you have a big exit, now, all of a sudden, you’re not working the way that you were, you’re not building the way that you were. And for those that are unfamiliar, this is one of the co-founders of Divvy, one of the biggest platforms out there for, really, just like categorizing metrics on…

Alex Bean: Divvy did, yeah, credit card spend for businesses. So, we ended up starting in 2016. We sold to Bill.com in 2021. But yeah, so smart credit card is what we were.

Justin Donald: Smart credit card and in five years, I mean, that’s a massive exit, but I feel like, in our community, inside the Lifestyle Investor Mastermind, we’ve got 50-plus people, probably closer to 75 people that have had an exit before. And I think that there’s this new experience they have when all of a sudden, there’s a bunch of cash in the account, and now, you’re not needing to work for money, right? So, there’s this paradigm shift. Sometimes there’s this ego that is killed or lost or searching for the next thing. And I actually love your framework, your circle that we’ll have to get into on that as well, of kind of like the life cycle for people and for businesses.

But what was that like? I’ve got to imagine in the beginning, like it feels really good. It’s like, oh, this is great and what I’ve heard, I’ve had some small exits, but nothing your size, but I mean, it’s kind of like, this is amazing, and then all of a sudden, it kind of wears off, and you’re left with what’s next.

Alex Bean: My big thing was, what you described is just this notion of like not having to work for money anymore, which is a great opportunity and blessing. It’s the American dream. It’s like why people come to America. But I had seen it in my family and through some other close relationships, like past generations and whatnot, that it wasn’t the American dream, that it became the American nightmare, right? And money started to become so powerful and it did a lot of the things that it can do, not always, but can do where it tears things and people and relationships and whatnot apart.

So, I kind of came through the lens of like, my exit came, I came from a family of entrepreneurs, and I’d seen it be a really good thing and I’d seen it be a really bad thing. I mean, for the first two or three months, I was like, no one talked to me. I’m hanging out with my family, my kids, my friends. And that was great. But once that kind wore off, I was like, all right, hold on, who am I? How do I make it a good thing and not a bad thing? And I started basically just talking to people that had been through it and my own family and talking to my dad. And I just was like desperate to make it a positive thing, not just for me, but for my spouse and for my children, right? Because how many times did these exits in these situations end up? It’s fine for you, but it ruins those things that you care about the most.

And yeah, ultimately, it was a long journey. It was super fun. And then all of a sudden, it was super lonely and it was like, wait a minute. I did not expect for this to be like a loss of identity, loneliness, a lack of motivation. Like all these things I’d never felt in a long, long, long, long time were now like ever present. And it was odd, frankly. It was something I didn’t expect to feel when I had achieved the American dream.

Justin Donald: Yeah. It’s interesting. I believe you were on Anastasia Koroleva’s podcast, and she’s a dear friend. She’s been on my show. And she had said that when she had her first big exit and her first one was a monster exit. And I would assume very similar to yours. She said she thought that that was going to solve a lot of things, when in reality, it created a lot of conflict. And she actually attributes that exit to ending her first marriage. Like it created friction and just a dynamic that was just impossible for them to work through being from different places, growing up different lives, different parenting, different values, and what money means.

Alex Bean: Literally, my wife and I, I would say it was probably the second hardest year of our marriage, the year after the exit. And I used to joke all the time, I said, “If my wife could go press the red button to go back to where we were, she would press the red button.” Like, she wouldn’t have told anyone, but she wanted to press the red button. And it’s like, wait, what? Like, how does an influx of money into a bank account that should solve the problems, solve the stresses, solve the whatever, and you don’t realize it until you start to step into it? It’s like, oh, it changes that conversation, it changes that relationship. It changes that relationship.

And even like, I think we’re four years after. In the last week, we have had multiple conversations where it’s like, wow, that relationship is odd because they’ve asked for money and we’ve given them money or it hasn’t worked or it creates a lot of dynamics you’re just not prepared for. And thankfully, Megan and I worked through it, but I actually totally understand what Anastasia is saying and it’s something that people don’t understand or care about because the other thing I like to preface when we talk about this subject is, hey, look, I’m proud of the success I’ve had. I think that there’s a lot of luck. I think there’s a lot of hard work. I think there’s a lot of a mixture of a lot of other people, things, but I’m really proud of it, right?

So, I’m not ashamed of money. I don’t think money’s bad, but what I do think is like, I also don’t need the world’s smallest violin. I don’t need anyone to feel sorry for me. But what I want people to understand is like, it creates its own sense of problems. It’s a new reality, and there are pros to it and there are cons to it, like everything else. And people just assume that it’s all pros. And I’m like, eh, it’s trickier than you think. And sometimes it sucks. And actually, the last week or so has been really lame for my wife and I on some relationships we’re dealing with because of this stuff.

Justin Donald: Yeah. And this is something that I think a lot of people– so there would be a lot of people that are like, oh, yeah, what problems do you have now? Money is solved. But what it does is it complicates relationships. It complicates differences of views of that. And then, like you, I’ve had a lot of people over the years as I’ve been a little more open and vocal with some of the successes that I’ve had that have come out of the woodwork and have asked for things, have asked for loans, have asked for investment dollars. And it is a very uncomfortable position to be in and it’s not an ideal position. And often, I feel like I am being taken advantage of and it’s hard to combat. And I’m hesitant to even share this because I’m going to because I do try to be just open and transparent and honest, but we’re going through a pretty sizable exit right now and it’s great that we can talk through some of these things on the show because I know I’m going to experience some of these things to even greater magnitude to what I’ve already experienced them.

Alex Bean: Can I give you two examples of this?

Justin Donald: Yeah, please.

Alex Bean: That people can relate with? So, the first one I’ll explain is like, my wife came from a poor background, right? Single mom, six kids, like, not money. So, when my wife asked my mother-in-law for a dress or for shoes or whatever, most of the time, it was like, no, we don’t have the money. It’s not a discussion, right? Hey mom, can I get this new thing? No. And it was like, that’s it. But when people know that you’ve had an exit and they say, can I have X? And it could be for a noble thing, it could be for a nonprofit, it could be for– I don’t want to be too specific because I don’t want people to know, but it’s like a noble thing.

But they ask, and when you say no, it’s not life saying no. It’s not like, oh, I wish, but I can’t, I don’t have the money. It’s like they know you have the money. My kids know I have the money. My friends know I have the money. My neighbors know I have the money. So, when someone says, “Hey, can I get $1,000, $5,000, $50,000, $100,000? Doesn’t matter,” they’re like, “but I know you have.” So, now, I’m saying life isn’t saying no. I’m saying no. So, that creates a lot of weird dynamic of like, well, why won’t you give me this for this noble reason? And you’re like, well, so that’s awkward.

Second thing, you would never have realized that the lack of purpose or lack of motivation was so damaging to your psychology. And I’ll give you my example. So, I remember we sold in June, spent the summer with my kids and friends, great. They go back to school. My friends are at work. And now, I’m like, it’s like October. And I think I told this story in our meeting, but I’ll say it again. It’s like, I’m in bed, my wife and I are just chatting. I think Netflix is on. We’re just closing out the day. And I’m like, I got to tell you something that’s going to sound insane, but I just need someone, I just need to say this, right? And I said, “I’m jealous of my friends in the rat race.” And my wife was kind of like, “What?” She’s like, “What are you talking about?” I’m like, six months ago, and my whole life, I knew that I had to go to bed because I was going to wake up early and I had to go to work and I had to go hunt for food. And at the end of the day, I could come home for dinner. I could look at my kids in the eye, I could look at my spouse in the eye, I could look at myself in the eye and be like, I worked hard today and I provided today. And you get dopamine, you get energy. You’re like, that’s my job. Like I’m going to go and then tomorrow I’m going to do it again. And there’s like an energy to it.

And as you just said, when you don’t have to work for money and there’s enough to support your life without going to work, you start being like, what am I doing today? Like, why did I exist today? What was my motivation today? Because it’s no longer just go get money, it’s now like, well, what is it? And so, that obviously led me into Factory for Good and the messaging of Factory and why I think it’s important. But people would be like, oh, again, small violin. And I’m like, no, I hear you.

But talk to anyone from a drug addict to a homeless person, to someone super successful that they don’t have purpose, they don’t know what their job is that day. And it’s weird. It’s really tough on your psychology. And I realized for the first time in a long time, Justin, I wasn’t happy and it wasn’t like I could never be happy again. I wasn’t on the verge of suicide. I just was like, wow, I’m usually very optimistic and very happy and I’m feeling some feelings I have never even remotely felt because I’ve always been on the hunt. And now, I’m just sitting there and I’m like, ooh, I don’t like it.

Justin Donald: Yeah. I love how you articulated that and I love– I do think there’s a new set of problems, though they may be higher quality problems or better quality problems, there’s still problems nonetheless, and it creates new circumstances and new things that you have to figure out how to work through. And so, I like hearing this, but I also think you’ve got a great vantage point because, and I don’t know how much of this you want to get into or what you’re willing to get into, but I mean, you have two different family members that utilize money and success, large amounts of money in different ways. And if you’re willing to elaborate on that, I think that can be powerful. And it also sets the stage for the direction you’re going in and really, the genesis for the Factory for Good.

Alex Bean: Yeah. Okay, so that is the premise of why I had this conversation and where we got the factory. And I come from a family of entrepreneurs. They lived in Seattle. My great grandpa built kind of a retail store, I think Walgreens, and had a lot of success, did very well. This was probably, I think, he was in the 60s, this is a long time ago, and did very well. And I actually never met my great grandpa. Like, I was born after he died, and yet I grew up knowing who he was because of the relationships he had built, the legacy he had built, the church he helped build, like the people he was connected with, like, it was just, he was this amazing person. And I’m sure, he’s up on a pedestal, right? And my grandpa, his son took over that business and built it to a way bigger entity, so extremely successful, extremely charismatic, extremely amazing in business, right?

So, on one hand, he’s my hero as well. He’s this amazing person. But you’ve heard the comment, by the third generation that wealth is gone, right? We’re an example of that. But let me explain. We’re an example, not because my grandpa ran the business under the ground or because we made bad investments, but because what happens with money is it can be very, very powerful and it can cause divorces, it can cause– in our family, we’ve had some drug and alcohol problems. We’ve had suicides to imprisonments and just estrangements, we’ll call it. And it was because, and if you really go back to it, it was like, oh, money, right? It was like, how much do I get and how much is, for this person? We’re fighting over it.

Justin Donald: And fighting, yeah.

Alex Bean: So, like at the end of the day, I inherited nothing. My dad inherited very, very little for what was there. And we look at it and we’re like, okay, there’s those two worlds. And I’m like, I saw money be the negative effect. So, I’m like, why would I want to go work my whole life and take all the risk and all the stress to get this end result that ends up tearing up the family I love anyways? Like, that’s what I’m doing it for. And then that’s the thing that tears everyone apart.

And so, when I look at that story and I’ve seen it and felt it and seen other people go through it, it was like, okay, wait a minute. This can’t always end in disaster. It can’t always end in the American nightmare as I referenced earlier. And so, what led me to Factory for Good is I try to be like, what were the small things that my great grandpa did that maybe my grandpa didn’t? Or maybe just the scenarios of their timing and how they approach certain stuff. And we came up with Factory for Good. Let me explain the analogy because I think it’s helpful. So, when you’re young, we’re all there and this is the rightful thing. You go to your factory, and I know you didn’t go to a factory, but every day you wake up and you go to work.

Justin Donald: Well, and our whole education system is built around the factory mentality and mindset and prepping people for that.

Alex Bean: Yeah. People at least understand what a factory is, which means you go in, you work hard, and you produce something. And for your whole life, you’re working to produce money because money is what allows you to provide shelter and opportunity and education and all the things you need for Maslow’s hierarchy needs and for your family and for good stuff. And if you’re lucky enough and all the other things that go into it, that money becomes, as you said, something that you don’t need to produce anymore to maintain Maslow’s hierarchy needs. Then it’s like, all right, at some point there, I want you to rethink about why do you wake up and go to your factory? What is your factory producing?

And I think the thing I thought about is my grandpa was amazing at business and he really was, but he just kept producing money. And I felt like he could have taken what was ultimately the product money and put it at the beginning and make that time, energy, and resources money and have a different output, and that output not be money, but that output now be good. And so, I think people have that as their focus when they’re in that situation that they can start to really create a factory that starts to have literally an assembly line of producing good in the world. And that’s up for debate of what that is. And that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of yourself and your kids, and you have purpose and you’re trying to make the world a better place.

Justin Donald: Yeah, I love that elaboration, and I’ve got your book right here. I think you’ve got an incredible book. I often like to feature people on the show that when I read their book, it’s had an impact on me and I’m just hopeful that it has some small impact, hopefully, a large impact on our audience. But it’s interesting because you had a big exit. It was big. And we don’t have to get into the details. We can get into as many as you want or as little as you want, but it was big enough that you didn’t have to do anything. And I think from there, you started your investment arm, right, Tandem Ventures.

And you could have just stopped there. It could have just been like the family office investing, finding the next big tech play. You know tech, you’ve done well once, but then you started Factory for Good as well, and instead of just doing nothing, you’re a big pickleball player as I am. In fact, you have a world record that we’ll have to talk about as well. I mean, you could just be playing pickleball all day. And I know you get plenty of games and I know you love to golf as well, so I know you do a lot that you enjoy. But why not just invest? Why not just pursue that path? Why not just, you know.

Alex Bean: Hey, what’s the point of investing?

Justin Donald: Well, you’re going to probably create more returns. I mean, I guess, for most people, it’s the return. But I will say I think there are a lot of people that are intentional investors that really want to have impact mentorship and a positive impact on founders.

Alex Bean: Correct. And that’s why I do it. And I joke, like, I don’t even know how much I might make here or not make here. I just love working with the founders, so I would agree with that statement. But the end result of Tandem, an investment arm is to produce a return for my investors, which therefore is a return for me, right? And so, that goes back into the factory is just producing money. And I’m like, okay, I hear that. Like, I’m not against money. And by the way, we’re going to have a fun conversation about what Bill Gates did more for the world, creating Microsoft or building charities. And I would argue Microsoft. So, I’m not against money, but there’s a secret formula in here that I think is super important. If I asked you, and let’s just play this game out because I know where it’ll go. What’s the most important thing to you?

Justin Donald: Faith, family, friendships.

Alex Bean: Boom. Right? All those three things are relationships, your relationship with God, your relationship with your wife and kids, and then your close friends, right?

Justin Donald: Totally.

Alex Bean: All of them relationships. What I have found in this world of, if you have enough money, if you let it sit and you actually just keep producing money, what happens is what happened with my family? And eventually, you’re going to get old and your kids are going to be like, how much do I get? And like, there’s all sorts of emotions that go into like that. And it’s not just like, oh, have a better lawyer. It’s like, the emotions of money are so powerful and it can take away motivations. It can create greed, it can create envy, it can create jealousy, and it creates all these things that, and I don’t need to go into every story, but there’s so many of these stories where I talk to people that are a little bit older and I’m like, what would you do differently? What would you do well? Almost always, they’re like, man, the thing I cared about most is my family, faith, family, and friends. And yet, because of my work or because of how much time I spent at the office or because of how successful I was, it caused this ripple effect that ultimately, I got a divorce. And I don’t talk to these two kids. I can talk to this other kid a little bit, and it’s like, how freaking sad is it that for some of these people who’ve worked really, really hard, they end up in this result where actually money ends up being this nuclear bomb of negativity inside of their family for ways in which they didn’t plan or didn’t understand that they were going to come.

So, my motivation, and I think the secret formula is, if you can transfer your factory for money to a factory for good, you can start to create a formula where it’s a good thing for your relationships with your wife and your kids, and your kids can grow up not spoiled, they’re entitled, but can grow up productive and constructive, we’ll call it. And that the world becomes a better place because you are actually doing some amount of good and, therefore, hopefully, you have a better relationship with God to be like, look, I’m trying. And so, to me, it’s a formula of winning, of making one plus one equals five, as opposed to just trying to sit on it and hope nothing happens because money is powerful. It will affect things if you don’t have a plan.

Justin Donald: Yeah, and I’ll make the argument that the better you are as an earner, the more capital you can create, the more good you can do, at least from a financial standpoint. But if you own your time from a time standpoint too, something in your book that I think is a powerful point is, culturally, we’re constantly fighting this engine of more, more money, more things. Something that I try to combat against really hard consumerism, right? Like, I think it’s important to be able to create financial freedom so that you can live life on purpose, on your terms by design, doing things that fulfill you with huge impact in the world. But I think that, like you outlined this in the book where we’re challenging the more complex. There is this belief, this fallacy, but this belief that more is going to solve your problem. So, my audience has a strong interest in financial freedom. I love talking about it. So, my question to you is, how do we avoid the trap of chasing wealth at the expense of what matters most? Because even knowing it, sometimes you can fall back into that trap.

Alex Bean: So, one of the things I see when I talk to people or I look at myself, I try to be introspective, is like, well, why do you keep making money? And the answer is like, that’s what they’re good at. That’s what they know how to do. That’s where they found joy. Like that’s where they created an identity, is like, I can build businesses. And I think even just being able to ask yourself the question of like, we do the happiness audit, when I spoke…

Justin Donald: That thing’s awesome.

Alex Bean: So, by the way, on Factory for Good, that’s my plug, FactoryforGood.com, everything’s free. But we do things like the Happiness Audit for a reason. And the reason is, if you actually believe that your wife and your kids are the most important thing to you, and your faith in God, then you need to remember that, which means you need to be proactive in your timing and be like, hold on, then I can’t miss dinner five days a week. I got to be home for dinner. And if that means I make less money or if that means I have to do some other sacrifices, I don’t get enough me-time or whatever the need, that’s the whole point of it.

And I think that life is, we’re filled with inertia. Like, we just kind of go about our day after day after day. And jobs have a really interesting way of taking up our time and solving what we think are important problems, but they’re not really important at all. And just like, unless you’re proactive, your life’s going to be reactive and you’re going to get caught up in that net. And so, to me, it’s just about creating a proactive playbook to be like, hey, I actually care about these things. And it’s not just your wife and your kids and your relationship with God. It’s also like, I really love to golf or fish or hunt or whatever you’d like to do. Make sure that you’re setting enough time and being like, well, that’s the end goal. That’s what I really want. And then everything you should do should be around that. And if that means you should work harder for some reason, great. If that means you should actually work less so you can achieve that, great. But you need to be proactive on what you’re trying to accomplish.

Justin Donald: Yeah, that’s good. And taking it a bit further, as we’re talking about the Factory for Good, how can entrepreneurs and investors, we’ve got a ton of entrepreneurs and investors that listen to the show, how can they intentionally design their businesses and ultimately their lives to create good for their families, their communities, and just the world at whole?

Alex Bean: Well, okay, so there’s two things to this. One is if you’re making money for the good of your family, I would really challenge you to be like, what does that mean? Like, write that down. What does good mean? Because I think a lot of people are lying to themselves, not like maliciously, but they’re like, I’m doing this for my family. And it’s like, are you? Your kid’s already eating, your kid’s already got a home, your kid’s got a decent education, so maybe there’s some better education you can get them. But you’re really not just doing it for your kids and…

Justin Donald: By the way, I got to interject here real quick because my wife called me out on this exact point. And I just want to double down on it where, I remember there were a few occasions where I was like, but I’m doing this for the family, I’m working more hours for the family, I’m making more money for the family, and thank goodness, my wife just called me on this, she said, “I want you to dig deep and I want you to see if you’re really doing this for the family because, my recollection shows that we have enough, that we have enough money, we have all the things that we need, that we are in a good situation. So, stop fooling yourself and justifying why you want to work more or why you want to make more for it being for the family because it’s not, it’s for you.”

Alex Bean: Yeah. And she’s 100% right. My wife felt the same way, and she allowed– not allowed me, she supported me in doing so, but she’s like, I don’t care about, there’s no end number that’s going to change our happiness. Like, we were happy in an apartment with no kids. We were happy in an apartment with kids. We were happy in a house with kids. Like, if we have a good relationship, she’s like, I don’t need anything more than we have. Although, by the way, side funny story, my wife said to me once because it was like, we’re doing it for family. She’s like, “Honestly,” because I go, “What could you buy in this world? What’s your consumer thing that you would just love?” And she’s like, “Honestly, as long as I can go to Target and they accept my credit card, like I’m good.” And so, I was like, oh, that’s the end goal is just use credit card. I was like, you can buy your stuff, like, okay. So, I think…

Justin Donald: It’s nice it’s a low bar. Well done. Well done.

Alex Bean: Low bar, but by the way, this is the whole point. Her bar was low. Her bar wasn’t that high. It wasn’t like, Alex, if you make X millions of dollars, I’m going to love you so much more and we’re going to have a deeper relationship. It’s like, no. She’s like, my bar is what we have. Like, that’s good. And obviously, being able to afford repair breakdowns and stuff alleviates some stress. But there’s this, like, you cross a certain bar and it’s like everything above it, it doesn’t really matter. So, yeah, I mean, I think people should just understand why they’re doing it and be like, hold on, if it’s for you, and by the way, that’s okay if you want to challenge yourself or if you want to achieve something or finish something out, or if you think you’re capable of and you want to test it, I’m not even saying every single time the answer is work zero. That’s not the answer.

But I think you should have a really hard look at yourself when you say, I’m doing it for the family to be like, is that what the family really wants and/or is that what they really need? Because one of the other tricky things about this situation is people say, I’m doing it for the family. And what they mean by this is they’re saying, I’m going to hand down money so for generations, they’re secured, or that they don’t have to work as hard as I did. And I’m like, but working as hard as you did is what made you who you are today. Not having money given to you and having to work early is what made you who you are today. You are actually screwing over your kids.

And I’m having a lot more discussions. I’m actually contemplating writing another book on this subject because I’m pretty passionate about it. And I’ll phrase it this way. Someone said to me, don’t rob your kids of the pride of doing it themselves. And you will be shocked at the emotional toll you take on your children by just giving them things, whether it’s in their 20s or whether it’s when you die, when you just give some– and the guy, someone explained it to me this way. And then I’ll turn it back to you.

He goes, Alex, imagine if you helicoptered up to the top of Mt. Rainier. You’re hiking a mountain, you helicoptered up. Everyone else is hiking up from the bottom. They’re all preparing and working. But you helicopter up to like the 95%. You get off the helicopter and you walk up. Everyone there is celebrating. We’re at the summit. Look at the view. Now, you’re at the summit and you see the view, but how do you think you feel? You know that you did not hike that thing.

Justin Donald: That’s right.

Alex Bean: And you feel like an imposter. You feel lazy and like, that’s what’s happening quite often. And these people saying, I’m giving my kids a better life. And it’s like, actually, in many ways, you’re kind of hurting them, like in a way you don’t realize. And it’s more damaging than people think.

Justin Donald: Totally agree with that. It’s interesting, when I started looking deep in myself for why did I want to work harder, why did I want to make more, it was actually, I had a surprise answer. I had this surprise epiphany, which was, I think I’m a much better businessman than I am a father because I have more reps. It’s easier. The results are seen in a short period of time.

Alex Bean: The results show. You can actually see the results with kids.

Justin Donald: Yes. Measurable.

Alex Bean: You don’t know if it’s working or not.

Justin Donald: That’s right. And so, it was easy to do that, like the easy choice. Not the right choice. The easy choice was, well, in this situation with these two things, well, work, I’m rewarded there, I’m respected there. I can measure the results. I can see results on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly basis. And that’s when I had to say, whoa, whoa, actually the greater investment is in the investment I don’t see the returns on right away and I’m not as good at and I need to get the reps at, like, I need to become a better father, I need to be more intentional, and I need to pick that choice more than I pick the work choice.

Alex Bean: So, you have a lot of listeners that are entrepreneurs. How do they design their businesses? So, I’ll tell you something I did and then I’ll tell you a story someone told me that really shaped my life. For me, it was like, okay, I needed a little me-time. I needed to have dad time, and I obviously needed to work my tail off because we were trying to build this company. So, for me, what that looked like was, anything before 8 a.m. was me-time. I would mountain bike or golf or work out in the morning. If I needed to be with the kids, like I would do it, but for the most part, if I needed to fit in true me-time, it was in the morning. From eight to six, I was at work and largely, Megan would text or call me, but she handled home and I handled, I went to work. I would get home, 6:15 to 9 was dad time. So, whether they had an activity or a sport, or whether it was dinner or just playing with them, and then putting them to bed. So, the three hours was dedicated to them.

And then around 9:30, 10, I was back at work, meaning at home, but on my computer, cleaning stuff up for the rest of the day. And I’d probably work, I’d say work from 10 to 12, 10 to 1 a lot. So, to me, it was like, that was my way of saying, okay, I got to keep some sanity for the things I wanted to do. I had to dedicate a lot of time at work, but then I also was like, no, no, I’m going to be home for dinner. I’m going to be with my kids for at least a period of time. I could put my phone away and be present. And that worked for me.

And again, I’m not telling everyone what to do, but for me, that was a way of designing my business. So, saying, okay, I needed to have some dedicated time to being a dad, but I also was like, no, but I’m going to be at work for these things. So, that’s the way I think about it. I had someone tell me this. Have you seen that circle? It’s like sleep, have fun, and get good grades. And it’s college, and it’s like basically pick two. It’s like, you can’t do all three.

Justin Donald: Right. Yep.

Alex Bean: So, he kind of drew the same thing up for me and he’s like, all right, family, God, and work. Okay? And he goes, what’s work-life balance? And I said probably what you would say, which is like, well, like setting aside an equal portion for all three at a consistent basis and having good balance. And he is like, maybe, but I’ll tell you, for me, he goes, there have been times in my life where it was like, yeah, it was going to be work and I wasn’t able to devote as much time to God and serving him as I would’ve liked, so I was working and I had less time with my family. And so, at that time, it was like I was all in on work, but I was also able to get out of that and be like, okay, work’s done. Now, I need to do more family time. And he was like, now, at this time in my life, I’m more dad. And then he moved and he is like, well, now, and it was later and he is like, now, it was more God.

And to me, it was just an interesting way of like, yes, sometimes in you’re an entrepreneur, an investor, you’re just super busy. It’s hard to get all three things in all the time equally balanced. It doesn’t mean you can’t have a relationship with God at those times or be a dad at those times, but it does mean like sometimes your time is going to be more spent doing work at the busy, busy times, but also be mindful when you need to get out of that and retool that factory and say, okay, it’s dad stuff now, I got to go be a dad for my kids more and I can pull back on work. And I think that helped me think about work-life balance a lot.

Justin Donald: Yeah. And I think that if we want to live a rewarding life that is truly meaningful, I think we’ve got to have that time for our spouse, our kids, our faith, our work, or our vocation, whatever it might be. And I do think it ebbs and flows in different seasons where some are more concentrated than others, some days, some weeks, some seasons. But something I really loved in your book is you interviewed several people about parenting, and I would love to talk about some of those key takeaways for raising children who live with intention and generosity. I mean, that’s one of the things we’re working hard in our family with and with our daughter is that we want to raise a humble, kind, and generous young lady, and it’s not always easy, and a lot of what I think needs to be done is counterintuitive because it’s counter-cultural. So, I’d love your thoughts on that.

Alex Bean: It’s not easy. Whatever you think you’re doing is going to get blown up in your face. It’s like the Mike Tyson quote, everyone’s got a plan until they get punched in the face. And guess what? Kids are constantly punching you in the face. So, I did. So, the reason that was so important to me, and people sometimes think, well, like money and like having money and being successful, how’s that relate to being a parent or raising kids? And I’m like, oh, my gosh, they couldn’t be more intertwined. So, I did something called the Bank of Mom and Dad. My big thing with my kids is, obviously, I want them to be kind, but I want them to be hard workers and contributors and I want them to just be responsible. So, the last thing in my mind I want my kid to be is entitled. That just scares the crap out of me, right?

Justin Donald: Me too.

Alex Bean: One, I will recommend Dr. Richard Watts’ book, Entitlemania. I’m a big fan of it. I talked to him the other day about it because I love the book. I think it’s great. So, go read that. If you’re like, entitlement freaks you out, go read that. But the big thing, as we got into this Bank of Mom and Dad is this conversation of the mom and dad are the bank owners and the kids for the first 18 years of their life, at least, are coming to the bank and they’re asking money from the ATM codes. And quite often, it’s just this reactive. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. But as long as they’re getting some free money at some consistency, like they’re going to keep asking. And so, we really tried to ask people what are the best things you’ve done, what are the worst things you’ve done with raising your kids and how it deals with money?

And I would say, go check out the stories. Go read the books because that’ll outline what they’re doing. A great conversation around this is like at 16, we live in a culture that most people don’t have subways. They have a car. It could be a nice car, an old car, but everyone’s getting a car at 16 because they got to get to school and stuff like this. And how people buy or don’t buy or manage that relationship around the car, I think is very indicative of what’s going to happen to that kid when they’re 22 and they’re wanting to live at home or not live at home, or not be able to provide for themselves or provide for themselves. And there’s a lot of little things you can do to screw it up and there’s a lot of little things you can do to make it amazing. I don’t think that there’s one way to do it, but man, it’s important to have a plan and to walk through it and to talk to your kids and to have open conversations and to say, this is what we expect of you. This is what we need you to do, and here’s what we’ll offer you. Those kind of go together to hopefully lead to somewhat of a well-adjusted, humble, hardworking kid.

Justin Donald: I like that.

Alex Bean: Hopefully.

Justin Donald: Yeah, that’s good. And yeah, I do think, unfortunately, there are things that we do that we are sometimes unconscious of that are leading towards an entitled life. And it’s like you catch yourself in the moment of like, wait a minute, what are we doing? We can’t take society’s route of normal. We need to really be thoughtful about our route. Like, what do we see? What would be good based on us starting from the drawing board, blank canvas. That’s been very helpful for my wife and I in making some of these parenting decisions.

Alex Bean: But parenting is the same as like you, Justin, if you hadn’t built your business, but Daddy had given it to you and just said, you’re the CEO. And you largely did, like, you might be good at pretending, but in your soul, you would know like, I didn’t build this.

Justin Donald: That’s right.

Alex Bean: And it’s the same thing with our kids. Like, some people that have the money are so eager to be like, here’s a car, whoa! And daddy paid for it. It’s like, they know, like they actually do want to create something. They want to build something. They want to save up for something. Right now, my kids, I’ll give you an example, again, I’m not by any means a perfect parent. I could tell you a fun story about yesterday, but that’s not for this podcast. So, my two boys, I have a 10-year-old and a 7-year-old. They want a Switch. They want the new Nintendo Switch, okay? Now, I’m not judging other parents for this. I’m just telling you with my kids and what their future looks like and the means that I have, I’m putting this rule into place, because a few of their best friends bought the Nintendo Switch the first week it came out and their kids have it, and I’m sure they’re having a great time.

But my kids, I’m like, hey, I’m not buying you the Switch. Obviously, dad can afford it. They know dad can afford it, but I’m not going to buy it for them. And I said, well, what’s something you could do to earn it? Because by the time you get the games and the consoles and the controllers, it’s a thousand bucks, right? So, it’s like, okay. That doesn’t mean anything to me, but to them, that’s a fricking lottery. That’s a lot of money to them. And so, I’m like, all right, we came up with something and they came up with the idea of like, we won’t eat sugar for six months until their birthday because their birthday is close. And I said, okay, so hold on.

That means like whenever we have a birthday party, when we go to a family reunion, 4th of July, all these things, I’m like, you’re not going to eat sugar. And they’re like, yeah. And they look at each other and it’s like the younger brother and the older brother, and they’re like, yeah, we got this. Now, is not eating sugar the hardest thing in the world? No. But for a kid, it’s actually quite difficult. And so, what I’m trying to hopefully teach them is some element of discipline. Say no to the marshmallow in front of you, right, that classic marshmallow test. Some discipline for a period of time to show me that you are willing to make a sacrifice to get a reward in the end.

And it’s been actually really fun to watch them. We go to a birthday party. We’ll go to their friend’s birthday party though. We had family reunion last week, July 4th. Treats everywhere, and they’re like, no, I’m not eating it. I want the Switch. And look, some people are going to listen to this. They’re going to say, oh, but you’re still buying them a Switch. It’s like, yeah, I know that, but I’m at least asking them to like, what are you going to contribute? What are you going to learn? What are you going to do? And I think it’s worth the trade to teach my kids how to have self-discipline for six months. And I’m like, great, let’s give it a run. So, that’s what we’re doing right now.

Justin Donald: Yeah, you’re teaching discipline and you’re teaching delayed gratification, and you let them come up with the terms. So, it was their creation, which is awesome. I love it. I think that’s really…

Alex Bean: They never would’ve done it if I had told them, you can’t eat sugar. They would’ve faltered. It’s the fact that it was their idea was a big deal.

Justin Donald: That’s right. Well, I’d love to take just a couple of moments here as we wrap things up. I think you have some brilliant frameworks and exercises. And I was curious if there were one or two or three that you might want to share here as we round things out today.

Alex Bean: So, why don’t we cover the things we’ve already covered, but I’m going to explain them a little bit further so people know what to expect. So, I’ll just give two real quick. So, the first one we talked about was the Happiness Audit. And I think just because the life is crazy busy and our lives get full of crap from all the different things we’re doing, including work, I was on a plane and I knew that our company was having some success and it started to become more of a reality that money was coming, but I hadn’t come yet, and I said, I wonder if money can buy happiness. Like, that was my question. Like, will I be happier with money in the bank account? So, I said, okay, let’s try something.

Put up my headphones, opened up my Google Docs, Google Spreadsheet, and I basically said, what are my favorite things in the world? And I just wrote down every single thing I could think of, wrote down 186. I don’t think you need to write down that many, but go write down 20 or 30. Push yourself a little bit. Then I said, how happy does it make me, 1 out of 10? And then I said, okay, how long does that last me? And I think this is where it really starts to like come home as like, wait a minute, I actually love eating ice cream, but it doesn’t last that long. Like the ROI is actually quite short and it’s not good for my health.

Justin Donald: That’s right.

Alex Bean: After 20 minutes of eating it, I’m like, ah, I had too much ice cream. Like I had too much sugar. And so, that was super important. And then the last question I asked myself, which I’m sure you could see coming is, how much did it cost me? And as I realized, because what we do with this Happiness Audit, which is on FactoryforGood.com, it’s free, when you do it, you start to realize, oh, wait a minute, my top 15 things don’t cost any money. It’s throwing a ball with my son and it’s like doing Legos with my daughter. It’s whatever, walking my dog with my wife. You realize the things that actually bring you the most happiness, the things that you really care about really don’t cost money.

And even the ones you think cost money, like I talk about the food and I’m like, whether– last night, I’ve a gift certificate. So, we went out to a nice restaurant, I won’t name the restaurant. It’s a nationwide steak chain. It sucks. It was super expensive. And honestly, my wife and I left and we’re like, we rather would’ve gone to McDonald’s. Like, it just like, it wasn’t– we spent way too much money on this meal. It was freaking like $500 for us and our two friends. I had a gift certificate, but 500 bucks, versus like, we could’ve gone to Chipotle and we would’ve been the same level of happiness because we got to be with each other. This stuff is super important for you to build the foundation of what your factory is. Okay? So, that’s one.

The other one I want people to focus on, and I’ll make this one quick, we call it the ABCs of relationships. And we want people to go through their lives and be like, okay, the A’s is where we need to start. And the A is other people and I use the framework in our meeting, I was like, who would you take a bullet for? That’s your first question. And people are like, well, no, like be honest with yourself. Like, who would you legitimately, it’s like you or them, you would take a bullet on their behalf, like my kids obviously are in that answer, my wife’s in that answer, and a few other people are in that answer, but not everyone. So, write those people down. And if you know who your A’s are, you need to sit down there. You need to ask them this question. I know we had this conversation, Justin, but I basically said rate out of 10, your relationship with those A’s, how you think it’s going. So, 7, 8, 6, 10, whatever, you write that down.

Then you need to go to that person, whether it’s your 7-year-old son like me, or it’s your wife, whoever’s in your A group. And you should have this conversation and say, hey, how would you rate me out of 10? How would you rate our relationship out of 10? And the experience I shared, which I’m happy to share again is my daughter who’s 15 now, I asked her this question. She gave me a high score. Super high, like 9. And I was like, wow, 9. That’s really high. And she’s like, well, yeah, I think we get along great, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I said, well, what can I do to get to a 10?

And from that conversation opened up this really impactful convo that we had where she felt totally comfortable explaining that maybe if I spent more physical time with her or just listened to her at the end of the day, that that would make her feel more loved. And when I realized, oh, wait a minute, is that email more important or is that like C-level relationship that’s just a nice coworker, as important as spending more time with my daughter in her room and making sure she feels heard and loved? And the answer is resoundingly no.

But putting it into a framework and having some sort of step forward or playbook to be like, these are the people I care about the most and here’s how I protect my relationship with them, at the end of the day, the saddest thing in the world, and I’ll end here, Justin, saddest thing in the world is like I call the difference between wealth and relationships. Rich and wealth. Someone who’s rich has all the goods in the world. They might fly on their private plane. But the wealthy people, the ones that are doing it with smiles and friends and families right with them, and it doesn’t matter what they’re doing, there’s a big difference between rich and wealth. And I hope people will move towards creating a factory for good, and I think that that factory for good creates wealthy people, not rich people.

Justin Donald: I love that. There’s a quote that I use when I give my keynote, which is rich people have a lot of money and wealthy people have a lot of time. And I think when you have time, you can then devote it to the right relationships, to the right activities, to creating experiences and epic moments. So, I absolutely love that. And because of your influence, I did ask my daughter that question to rate me 1 to 10 and I was a little nervous of how she was going to rate me because there had been some disciplinary things in the not far off, like earlier prior to asking this, the day before, a few days leading up. But she gave me a 10, and what would’ve been easy is to just stop and be like, all right, I got it. But what I wanted do is I want to take it further, like you said. So, I felt real good and I said, but is there anything that I can be doing better as a dad? And she said, you know, sometimes you get really angry at things or at me and I don’t understand it and I don’t like it.

And it was such a great reflection because I don’t get angry very often. But my recognition was I get angry when I feel disrespected. And sometimes, that disrespect to me is so great, which children are really good at this, that I lose my cool more than I probably should or more than I would with someone else that isn’t as close, right? It’s almost like I can monitor my emotions a little bit better in this business relationship when they say some offensive things than I can when my own daughter says something or does something that’s exactly the opposite of what I asked, right? So, it was a fascinating realization and so, it has caused me a lot of self-reflection and how can I get better here as a dad? How can I show up in a way that is just more loving and supportive and not reactionary?

Alex Bean: I think we’d all fall under that umbrella somewhere. But, hey, this has been awesome, Justin.

Justin Donald: This is great.

Alex Bean: Thanks for having me, man.

Justin Donald: Yeah. So, where can people learn more about you? Obviously, your book, the audit, give all the websites.

Alex Bean: Well, go to FactoryforGood.com. It’s free. We’ve got everything there. We have a newsletter ever since on Factory Fridays every Friday. So, a lot of people, that’s just the easiest way for them to glean the content. There’s a lot of these Happiness Audits and Bank of Mom and Dads and all those, what we call experiences that’s on the website. And then if you want to grab the Audible or the book, great. But again, I’m just doing this because it’s a passion project. I want people to not go through the same experience that my family went through where money kind of ended up being the destroying factor. So, this is my labor of love at this point. So, go do it. Come join us. We’d love to have everyone involved and appreciate it.

Justin Donald: I love it. Well, I highly recommend the book. I’ve got it here. I think the world of it. I think the world of you, Alex. Thank you for making the time to be on the show today. And I can’t emphasize how much value I have gotten from Factory for Good and from the Happiness Audit. So, I really want to encourage everyone at a minimum, do the audit, do the Happiness Audit, check out the website. There’s so much great content, and ideally, take the next step. Read the book, get the newsletter. I’m a huge Alex Bean fan. So, thank you, Alex.

Alex Bean: Hey, appreciate it.

Justin Donald: Well, I love ending every podcast with a question to our audience, and the question is this: What is one step you can take today to move towards financial freedom and really live life on your terms, a life that you desire, not by default, but by design? And what are some tools, at least a tool that you can take and implement from what Alex talked about today? Thanks, and we’ll catch you next week.